Pelotons

[John Brown]

"I have absolutely no idea as to the relevance of a woman with a child seat 'might not have a car'. Where does she put it then? On her back ?"
No. On the back of her bicycle, obviously. Are you also purposely misunderstanding for comic effect?

John Brown wrote:
What waters me off, as a car owner who also cycles, are pedestrians who jump out in front of my bike at zebra crossings, causing me to convert my kinetic energy into heat. They are inconsiderate b*astards.


As a pedestrian I'd say it depended on the circumstances, how much time did they give you to brake, was there a continuous stream of traffic etc.

Yes, of course it does, but in the absence of other traffic I believe it is inconsiderate of a single pedestrian to force a cyclist to stop on a zebra crossing, and I don't really see how any sane person could calmly argue that point.

 

[mind_the_goat]

I think in general, people hate cyclists the same way they hate White Van drivers, buses, caravans, little old ladies, artics overtaking, Audi drivers, horses etc., It's annoying when you are stuck behind a stupid one, but few people are really going to get violent over it. Why can't someone vent their frustration about it without being attacked for doing so? Better here than on the road.

 

[Jacob]

...., but in the absence of other traffic I believe it is inconsiderate of a single pedestrian to force a cyclist to stop on a zebra crossing, and I don't really see how any sane person could calmly argue that point.

It's the law - pedestrian has right of way and is entitled to expect you to stop. If stopping is a problem then you are going to fast.
People often under-estimate the speed of approaching bikes (pedal or motor) and sometimes hardly notice them, which is something a biker needs to be aware of all the time - he/she is sometimes invisible! Which is also why we have zebra crossings - it takes out the element of chance.
So basically you should stop, unless they wave you through - which does happen sometimes.

 

[Logger]

Dunno.
Most likely Roger is exaggerating. 10 miles four abreast sounds very improbable to me - I bet it was half a mile three abreast.!

So back to people who report these things are liars again Jacob. Brilliant

 

[Jacob]

Dunno.
Most likely Roger is exaggerating. 10 miles four abreast sounds very improbable to me - I bet it was half a mile three abreast.!

So back to people who report these things are liars again Jacob. Brilliant

The word I used was "exaggerating". If you look carefully you will see it is spelt differently. Also it has a quite different meaning from lying. If you aren't sure of the difference look them up in a dictionary.

 

[custard]

Here in the New Forest the hostility between cyclists and other road/forest users seems to be escalating. The local paper regularly reports confrontations between horse riders and off-road cyclists, a cycle road race through the forest was cancelled last year when the show ground hosting the event suddenly called it off citing pressure from locals, and during the same event the previous year cyclists reported tacks had been thrown on the road and road signs removed.

I can't speak for the bridle paths but the serious cyclists I meet on the road are generally pretty well behaved. If there's a problem it's not "lycra louts" but the local tourist board selling the forest as a cycling mecca, which prompts inexperienced family cyclists to take the train to the main New Forest station, hire bikes, and head out on narrow but busy roads, often with young children struggling to keep up. The road by the station is often crowded with large boats on trailers hurrying down to the coast, they'll often be in a rush to catch a tide and will overtake cyclists at 50 or 60mph just before blind bends, my heart's in my mouth when I see the close shaves.

 

[John Brown]

...., but in the absence of other traffic I believe it is inconsiderate of a single pedestrian to force a cyclist to stop on a zebra crossing, and I don't really see how any sane person could calmly argue that point.

It's the law - pedestrian has right of way and is entitled to expect you to stop. If stopping is a problem then you are going to fast.
People often under-estimate the speed of approaching bikes (pedal or motor) and sometimes hardly notice them, which is something a biker needs to be aware of all the time - he/she is sometimes invisible! Which is also why we have zebra crossings - it takes out the element of chance.
So basically you should stop, unless they wave you through - which does happen sometimes.

Yes, I understand that it's the law, and I'm not suggesting that I'm travelling too fast to stop(I barely get up to jogging speed these days), but, when I'm being a pedestrian, I make a point of not making cyclists stop as I know that a certain effort has been expended to get up to speed. It's all part of being considerate of other road users.
Being perfect in every way makes it hard for me to understand the behaviour of lesser mortals.

Although I may be guilty of attributing to malice that which can be explained by stupidity or just lack of awareness.

 

[Jacob]

....
Although I may be guilty of attributing to malice that which can be explained by stupidity or just lack of awareness.

Yes very probably!
Basically I'd stop unless waved through - you never know they may be partially sighted, pissed or completely deranged, with just enough brain power left to realise that a zebra crossing is a safe option (supposedly :roll: ).

 

[Bm101]

Consideration for others. Acceptance that the world is peopled by fools. Now there's a novel idea.
It's not about bikes or motorbikes or cars or lorries or even the pedestrian.
Its about realising the difference between a Darwin Award Nominee and the one who wants a standing ovation and everyone to come with them on stage.

 

[MIGNAL]

As the only non car driver/cyclist/motorcyclist/tractor driver in this entire thread (I'm just a mere pedestrian) I must say that I'm absolutely pssed off with seeing car drivers talking on mobile phones.
Yet to see a cyclist, motor cyclist or even a tractor driver do it but I live in hope!

 

[John Brown]

As the only non car driver/cyclist/motorcyclist/tractor driver in this entire thread (I'm just a mere pedestrian) I must say that I'm absolutely pssed off with seeing car drivers talking on mobile phones.
Yet to see a cyclist, motor cyclist or even a tractor driver do it but I live in hope!

I've seen a lot of cyclists talking on mobile phones, and texting as well. Teenage boys mainly. To be totally honest, if there'd been such things as mobile phones when I were a lad, I'd have been doing the same. Not that that makes it right..

 

[RogerS]

Dunno.
Most likely Roger is exaggerating. 10 miles four abreast sounds very improbable to me - I bet it was half a mile three abreast.!

So back to people who report these things are liars again Jacob. Brilliant

Many thanks, Logger.

He does have form. Wasn't it only last week that he called Eric The Viking a liar ? Now me.

Time to lock the thread, methinks.

 

[Jacob]

There's a big difference between lying and exaggerating. You should look it up in a dictionary.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Will you two wind your necks in please! My Goodness the pair of you are like flippin' teenagers. I'd rather not lock the thread, much prefer if you both grew up and gave it a rest.

 

[otter]

Just pull in front with your motorbike and stop. :mrgreen:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMrphFALNZo

 

[RogerS]

Will you two wind your necks in please! My Goodness the pair of you are like flippin' teenagers. I'd rather not lock the thread, much prefer if you both grew up and gave it a rest.

I'm out of here.

 

[defsdoor]

Riding four abreast in some cases can actually help cars to pass.

Technically, to pass a cyclist, you should do so exactly the same as you would pass a car. You have to perform a safe overtaking manoeuvre and you should not expect the cyclist to somehow get out of your way. After all - why should you dictate the speed that others should be travelling at ? Do you get out of the way of that 220mph Ferrari behind you ? Cyclists are not required to ride on the left hand side of the road (in some cases it is even dangerous to do so) and assertive riding (holding the lane) is often the best way to ensure safety (for example some idiots love to pass cyclists and then turn left into them - somehow expecting the cyclist to know they are doing this and give way.)

Road priority is generally on a first come first served basis unless the road signs/marking dictate otherwise. If you are behind a cyclist and cannot pass it you have no choice but to suck it up and wait. The cyclist has no reason or responsibility to get out of your way (do you expect slow people on stair cases to get out of your self-important way ? )

However, on single carriage roads, a long line of single file cyclists is almost impossible to pass because there are no gaps for you to safely filter back in to when passing. A group of cyclists could be passed in one overtaking move if they are tightly bunched.

Of course, these could have just been inconsiderate people. This doesn't mean all cyclists are inconsiderate and generalising about such things doesn't help anyone.

I went out for a proper ride on my bike the other week (2nd time in 3 years!) and, because of road works and the resulting opposing queue of traffic, it was impossible for cars to safely pass me. I'm doing, maybe, 15mph and a 4x4 half truck is behind me unable to pass - the lane is barely wide enough for his tank in the first place. After 20-30 seconds he decides his desire to get to the next set of traffic lights is more important than my life and passes me with no room for me whatsoever, whilst f'ing and blinding at me through the window. I ended up in the hedgerow. I could have easily ended up under his wheels.

I cycle with my daughter (now 7) to her school in the mornings (500yds at most). It's on the road we live on. It's a residential road with a normal 30 limit (residents have been petitioning for it to be a 20 for years as there is a school on it). Cars come down here at ridiculous speeds. Some pass me and my daughter (riding two abreast for her safety) whilst we are passing parked cars and there are cars coming in the opposite direction. Should we be stopping to let cars pass constantly ? Or should people just learn to respect other people's right to exist and chill out a little ? I guarantee that you will be waiting behind the car ahead at the next junction regardless of your urgency.

I have no problem sitting behind cyclists when I am driving. Generally I'm wishing I was riding with them. At worst, if I am delayed a couple of minutes, who cares ? I'm not driving an ambulance on an emergency or anything, you know, important.

People seem to be in a desperate rush to get to their graves. Relax and admire the view (especially if that's the Ladies Cycling club ahead of you )

 

[Phil Pascoe]

"... for example some idiots love to pass cyclists and then turn left into them..."
The favourite where I live is for the cyclist to overtake you coming into traffic lights then turn left across you. I've come close to wiping out a few.

 

[Finial]

The Highway Code speaks against riding four abreast. I've never seen it happen on open roads. Come to that, I've never been held up by a bike for more than a minute. No doubt it sometimes happens in other places or at other times.

But I've often been delayed, sometimes for hours, by a driver who ignored the Code, crashed their car and blocked the road. When cycling in London, I'm often held up by people driving two abreast, or driving close to the kerb, which is enough to block the lane. Just about every single time I am approaching lights, drivers will overtake simply to cut in and join the queue in front of me. Many roads are reduced to a single lane for two way traffic, causing huge cumulative time loss, by drivers who see nothing wrong with parking on the highway. When I'm cycling on roads where there is no room to overtake, I find that many motorists don't have enough patience to wait even a few seconds for a passing place before starting to rant and blow their horn. I also notice that many cars are now almost the size of small lorries, so of course find passing anything difficult. And that the seats next to their drivers are normally empty.

And yet I read here that cycling is the problem. An interesting thread.

 

[Jacob]

....

I cycle with my daughter (now 7) to her school in the mornings (500yds at most). It's on the road we live on. It's a residential road with a normal 30 limit (residents have been petitioning for it to be a 20 for years as there is a school on it). Cars come down here at ridiculous speeds. Some pass me and my daughter (riding two abreast for her safety) ....

I cycle with children (and grandchildren :shock: ). I tend to place myself behind and well out from the kerb as a sort of shield - deterring people from passing us too closely. And wear bright yellow top.

defsdoor's comments make sense - it may be easier to pass a pack of cyclist together rather than passing them one by one in a line. Re overtaking by tank - this is where assertive riding helps - stick to the middle of the lane so there is no chance of being overtaken. Big4x4s do tend to make their drivers angry - they feel like kings of the road but in fact have poor visibility particularly on the near side and have a problem negotiating tight spaces.