Passing Cyclists in UK with a car Genuine help question

[Agent_zed]

Whilst I am generally pro-cycling I think there are a lot of cyclists that seem to think the road is there personal time trials track. They also seem to neatly forget that they also have some guidance to follow in the highway code '2) When riding on busy roads, with vehicles moving faster than you, allow them to overtake where it is safe to do so whilst keeping at least 0.5 metres away, and further where it is safer, from the kerb edge.'
I.e do your best to allow cars to pass, not ride in a big group purposely to annoy car drivers and then get irrate when the drivers they forced into difficult situations get it wrong.

There also seems to be a trend of runners refusing to run on pavements and instead just running along the side of the road towards oncoming cars?! I watched a runner on a road yesterday coming through a section of traffic lighted works holding up 2 lorries who had to follow him at running pace as they couldn't fit around him. The runner could have crossed the road and ran within the coned section away from the traffic and everyone would have been safe and happy.

 

[Phill05]

Assuming he is not "exaggerating" I must say this looks very improbable. I've been cycling for 70 years, driving for 60 and have never seen anything like that. Very rarely you might get 3 abreast briefly on a quiet and clear country lane. Maybe there was a special event going on?

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No way exaggerating the one's near to the white line where pushing forward pacing then dropping over in front of the other two then the next pushing forward and this was on the Rowsley road from Matlock.

When I was driving tractor's on the road it was law that I had to pull over to let vehicles past me, no matter what you drive it needs all people to read the road and act accordingly.

I have no problem with cyclists at all everyone is entitled to ride / drive what they want all I am saying is that was the worst case of "I do what I want sod you"

 

[Sideways]

@Phill05 says he's seen "....a group of 12 or more cyclists riding in a block 3 side by side and a tailback of 10 lorries and more cars following no one could overtake safely..."
Assuming he is not "exaggerating" I must say this looks very improbable. I've been cycling for 70 years, driving for 60 and have never seen anything like that. Very rarely you might get 3 abreast briefly on a quiet and clear country lane. Maybe there was a special event going on?

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This definitely happens. I've encountered it a few times over the years. They are organised club ride outs and you also get time trial type events with a string of cyclists being started at short intervals. But encountering one of these every 5 years over a driving lifetime isn't something I'll get upset about.
If one of these happened every week on my own local roads and it was managed inconsiderately, that's different and grounds for legitimate complaint.

 

[deema]

Back to the interpretation of the guidance which actually states ‘at least 1.5m (5feet)’, so a parameter has been defined which the police and courts are using. The issue is that collectively none of us appear to understand what is required or how it should be definitively interpreted. My opinion on what is safe (which a number have brought up as the defacto stance) will be different to another’s, and I would not like to find out if ‘my opinion’ was correct in the courts if regrettably an accident occurs.
I was hoping either a legal eagle or a police person who has been advised in what the law now requires could give some guidance. The new law for me is full of good intentions, but leaves me as a responsible driver unable to interpret clearly what it requires me to do.

 

[Jacob]

......... leaves me as a responsible driver unable to interpret clearly what it requires me to do.

Seems pretty clear to me: if in doubt, keep at east 1.5m away from cyclists.
You aren't breaking the law if you are closer but if there is an accident it might be held against you.

 

[akirk]

The UK Highway Code is not of itself law - however there is content which does refer to underlying legislation, and if so it will use wording such as 'must' and the legislation will be linked...

Updates to the Highway Code are listed online - these changes are in the recent updates:
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/updates
Relevant change is to rule 163:
"Overtake only when it is safe and legal to do so. You should..."

...give motorcyclists, cyclists and horse riders and horse drawn vehicles at least as much room as you would when overtaking a car (see Rules 211 to 215). As a guide:

• leave at least 1.5 metres when overtaking cyclists at speeds of up to 30mph, and give them more space when overtaking at higher speeds
• pass horse riders and horse-drawn vehicles at speeds under 10 mph and allow at least 2 metres of space
• allow at least 2 metres of space and keep to a low speed when passing a pedestrian who is walking in the road (for example, where there is no pavement)
• take extra care and give more space when overtaking motorcyclists, cyclists, horse riders, horse drawn vehicles and pedestrians in bad weather (including high winds) and at night
• you should wait behind the motorcyclist, cyclist, horse rider, horse drawn vehicle or pedestrian and not overtake if it is unsafe or not possible to meet these clearances.

So - is it the law? - No, technically it isn't it is advice not compulsory as it uses the word 'should' not 'must'
so can you be prosecuted for an overtake at less than 1.5m - not in the abstract, but if there is an overtake which is risky / dangerous / causes an accident then leaving less than 1.5m space will be a contributory factor in any prosecution... as it will show that you didn't observe the Highway Code.

The latter point is quite clear that you should wait until you can give enough space...

Ultimately, common sense does apply - if you take care, give as much space as possible, and slow down as much as you can, then you should be fine...
Some police forces may prosecute on the technical 1.5m distance, but a good solicitor would have no issue in getting that ditched if it was the only facotr in the prosecution.

 

[Hornbeam]

I agree plenty of moron drivers but also a fair number of moron riders.

I totally agree and any self respecting group would have made it easier for the vehicles to pass. Unfortunately most non-cyclist think this means single file but this often encourages moron car drivers to squeeze past where there isnt room.
What may look to a car driver as plenty of room when viewed at an angle in comfort can feel very different from the cyclists perspective.
However much of a PITA cyclists can be, most ore parent/children etc and they always come off worse.

 

[Bingy man]

Tbh I think the motorist will always come off worse in terms of the law and pedestrians and cyclists will come off worse in terms of broken bones or worse . I’ve certainly seen both cyclists and pedestrians behaving badly but also motorists that still believe that the roads are only for motorists. Many years ago when I used to ride to work ( no fancy cycling lanes ) you would ride on the road as the local Bobby would stop you if he found you on the pavement. There were of course no phones, no ear buds playing your favourite tunes or other electronic distractions just you and your cycle and the cars , lorry’s and vans etc . So it was a kind of self preservation when you could hear a large vehicle or heavy goods lorry to just mount the pavement and let said lorry go past - a quick blast of air horn’s would confirm the driver’s thanks and everyone got on with there day . Nowadays cyclists with no lights or even reflectors, no hi viz clothing, no hand signals to tell you their intentions and of course the nowadays attitude that I can do as I please even if it means putting their lives at risk. Kids riding 2 up on an electric scooter designed for 1 , mobility scooters designed for the pavement and not the roads all with little or no lights but the motorist is at fault in the event of an accident. Last point has anyone else noticed how many cyclists are riding bikes that have converted to motorcycles using small engines again though no lights or reflectors - good thread and good discussion

 

[stuckinthemud]

Quick rant, but, I overtook, safely, a couple of cyclists then met another group I could not overtake safely. While I dawdled along waiting, the 1st cyclist attempted to pass my vehicle on the inside, by squeezing through a 1/2 meter gap between my car and the kerb. Where is my protection in law if he slips under my wheel when he can’t resist 2 tonne travelling at 17 mph?

 

[Rewound]

The speed differential is the big factor, I do a lot of miles on very narrow roads, when a vehicle comes up behind, I stay in the middle of the road until they match my speed, then I will move as far left as I can and they will gently squeeze past 2 or 3mph faster, with my elbow nearly touching their near side mirror. No problems with that, but on wider roaads folk whizzing past 40 or 50 mph faster, even if they are leaving a metre and a half, is far from pleasant.

Had a crazy one a while back, very long hill, very narrow road, car starts to follow about 50 yards behind matching my speed, its a long climb so rather than hold her up I stop and wave her past, steep embankment means I can't get off the road!, I guess she tries to do it quickly, zooms past at 40 or 50 mph in this enormous SUV, shes doing this with only one hand on the steering as she is waving me a thank-you. Must have missed me by 2 inches.

 

[aet1]

Cyclists have to wobble. That's how they stay up - controlled swoops to one side and then the other. You can see it on bike trails on wet roads. The faster you go the nearer you get to a straight line.
Yes and cyclists may well fall off, much more likely than a pedestrian falling over.

I saw my footsteps in the snow a few years ago and I think I wobble more than most bikes! Lurching is a better description.

 

[Diver]

Are people really in so desperate a hurry? Can we not live and let live? If we all took a chill pill we might last a bit longer. I think of the people in such as Ukraine who would be happy to just survive. Maybe we all ought to retake a driving test every 5 years. It would be interesting to know how many would pass.

 

[sploo]

Yes, some cyclists are a pain in the proverbial, but it's an unfair fight between a car and a bike. Let it go.

As a cyclist, car driver, and (former) motorcyclist I'd claim that some percentage of all are a pain in the proverbial. I suspect the common factor is "people".

I would however strongly encourage all car drivers to spend some time on the roads on a bicycle; to get an understanding of what it's like to be passed at high speed by a car that's just inches away. Might change a few behaviours (I'd hope).

 

[Sideways]

Cyclists have to wobble. That's how they stay up - controlled swoops to one side and then the other. You can see it on bike trails on wet roads. The faster you go the nearer you get to a straight line.
Yes and cyclists may well fall off, much more likely than a pedestrian falling over.

And cyclists have to deal with the same potholes that cars do, with only two wheels and little or no suspension to help. This is another reason why they need to "wobble". They are much more sensitive to the road surface and need to vary their riding line to avoid things that a car will take in its stride and a car driver may never notice. Tram lining, white lining, potholes, road surfaces all affect motorcycles and scooters too.

With cutbacks in road maintenance, potholes are so bad these days that I had to replace a snapped coil spring on the car last year. My first in over a half million road miles. Pity anyone on 2 wheels...

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Potholes? Near me there's a patched patched patched patched patched patch.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Some years ago two Oxbridge professors conducted a huge investigation, they estimated that vehicular pollution could be cut by 10% if all build outs and pinch points were abolished and road surfaces kept in a perfect condition.

 

[Jacob]

.....

When I was driving tractor's on the road it was law that I had to pull over to let vehicles past me, .......

I don't think it was ever law - tractor drivers had just the same obligations - to drive with consideration for other road users. Most other road users are perfectly considerate to tractor drivers too!

 

[ajs]

And cyclists have to deal with the same potholes that cars do, with only two wheels and little or no suspension to help. This is another reason why they need to "wobble". They are much more sensitive to the road surface and need to vary their riding line to avoid things that a car will take in its stride and a car driver may never notice. Tram lining, white lining, potholes, road surfaces all affect motorcycles and scooters too.

With cutbacks in road maintenance, potholes are so bad these days that I had to replace a snapped coil spring on the car last year. My first in over a half million road miles. Pity anyone on 2 wheels...

I actually thought of commenting on that very issue in my earlier post but decided not to get started on the cycle lanes bit. Voluntary cycle lanes are worse than useless: when you do need them they're full of parked cars. When you don't they have the effect of keeping cars out of them, thus swishing all the debris that collects on the road into the cycle lane. Broken spring fragments are more common than you might suppose and one of the most hazardous bits of debris you may encounter.

 

[Jacob]

I actually thought of commenting on that very issue in my earlier post but decided not to get started on the cycle lanes bit. Voluntary cycle lanes are worse than useless: when you do need them they're full of parked cars. When you don't they have the effect of keeping cars out of them, thus swishing all the debris that collects on the road into the cycle lane. Broken spring fragments are more common than you might suppose and one of the most hazardous bits of debris you may encounter.

http://wcc.crankfoot.xyz/facility-of-the-month/book.htm

 

[Tris]

This could be the perfect thing to bridge the potholes on our local lane.

It's part of a national cycle route and in the mile or so to the main road there's only one spot where a cyclist could ride at the edge without ending up in a ditch because the surface is so uneven.