Order of work- door surrounds in real wood

[RogerS]

Normally when building new internal walls (probably stud) I know that most builders (I think) will put in the door surround (door liner) so that the plasterer can plaster up to it. I foresaw several problems with that approach...

1) Since I was going to lay oak flooring throughout, it seemed to me to make sense to fit the door surrounds after the floor had been laid

2) many of the doors will be in ash and so to complement that I was going to make the surrounds out of ash as well and wet plaster never goes well with real wood...so yet another reason to retrofit the door surrounds at the end

However.......

I now find that the plastering on the walls on either side of where the door surround will go isn't exactly in a straight line and so I'm now having to scribe in each surround :evil: so that I get a decent end result.

I can live wih this....well, I have to..but I wondered what you guys would have done in a similar situation.

Roger

 

[paulm]

Not sure if you mean the door linings or the door architraves Roger ?

The plasterwork should flush with the door linings and then the architraves be planted on top ?

Perhaps it's not so easy on an older property. Failing that I would probably have mounted temporary cheap architraves to give a straight edge to plaster too, and then replaced them with proper and made good any small areas of damage.

Or if too late for that, chip back the plaster to a straightish edge, mount the architraves and then make good the plaster back to those.....

Cheers, Paul

 

[Night Train]

I suppose one method would be to fit a soft wood lining first and then remove it when the plastering is done but that is a pain and consumes time and wood.

A better method would be to fit edge beads to the plasterboard where the liner would go so the plasterer works up to the bead. You can then fit your door liners without damaging the plaster and knowing that the plaster is as straight as you have set your beads.

 

[chippy1970]

I would have fixed a plywood false lining in first for them to plaster to if you have enough room this lining can be left in giving you a perfect flat surface to fix your hardwood lining to. This is what we did when I use to do shopfitting where the linings came in fully finished doors hung etc.

 

[dennis]

As Paul says, not sure if you mean the linings or the architraves.

Temporary linings are sometimes used, making sure that the width and the overall frame size is the same as the permanent ones will be.But even with linings in you still sometimes get rough plasterwork.

Architraves are normally fitted after plastering. If the plaster is rough I generally mark round the architrave and use a stanley knife,scraper and sandpaper to straighten it up. You could of course use a belt sander or scribe the architraves.

Dennis

 

[toolsntat]

Am I right in thinking you mean that the thin edge of the casing needs scribing to follow the face of the wall and then you will put the archs onto this edge :?:

If so, this unevenness does not necessarily matter too much, just make your casings wide enough to cover the widest point and allow the archs to cover the hollows....

This could result in quite a gap at the back of the archs and maybe if its too much and unsightly it could be caulked with a colour to match your archs :wink:

Andy

 

[RogerS]

Interesting suggestions there, chaps, many thanks.

I like Night Trains suggestion of fitting edge beads. I can see that working.

For clarification, I was referring to the surrounds and not the architraves.

 

[Woody Alan]

I did this in my house recently, I fitted the oak linings and then taped up the lining before plastering. I admit it wasn't perfect, eg did get some plaster on some bits, but the whole fitting process was a lot easier. Fitting solid oak frames was hard enough without trying to line up and match to existing plaster. I am however not a professional and often do thing unorthodox to suit my way of working and get an end result I will be happy with. Also my linings were completely bespoke not pre made.

Alan

 

[dennis]

If you are scribing the edges of the linings to suit uneven plaster you will have problems with both hanging the doors and fitting the architraves.It is important to have linings straight and parallel

Using stop beads is fine as long as you make sure that they do not exceed the width of the intended lining.

Dennis

 

[head clansman]

Hi

The correct way to do this job is to fit the lining first , fit them to the new level required leaving a gap under the lining for two reasons first so the plasterer can skim up to the edge of lining leaving his work flush to make life easier for you when fitting architraves and skirting boards secondly so when the floor is laid it slip under the base of lining leaving a nice flush fit .hc

 

[RogerS]

Hi

The correct way to do this job is to fit the lining first , fit them to the new level required leaving a gap under the lining for two reasons first so the plasterer can skim up to the edge of lining leaving his work flush to make life easier for you when fitting architraves and skirting boards secondly so when the floor is laid it slip under the base of lining leaving a nice flush fit .hc

I know and it's not a problem when the wood is going to be painted but when it's real wood then you can guarantee plaster will get onto it. Also it makes fitting the flooring much more difficult around the doorways and you'll end up seeing where it's cut around the door supports.

 

[head clansman]

Hi RogerS

Also it makes fitting the flooring much more difficult around the doorways and you'll end up seeing where it's cut around the door supports

.

it shouldn't make any difference if the lining is painted or stained finish when you fit the lining fit it to suite the new floor level before its laid so when you lay the new boards you slip the boarding under the lining ends there is no cutting around the lining or doorstops involved.

If your plasterer is any good he will scrap off any mess left on the edge of lining leaving you only light sanding to clean the edge of lining before you fit the the new floor & the architrave and skirting to your new floor level nice neat professional job .hc

 

[dennis]

There are several ways that have been mentioned that can all be classed as correct, but you are stuck with what you have now got.

Could you explain better what you mean when you say that you are having to scribe the surrounds. Which I take you to mean linings, as I say you should not be scribing the edges of linings to suit plaster, as the edges need to be straight.

You either straighten the plaster, or make the lining to the widest point of the plaster all round the opening, then fill behind the architraves when they are fitted.



Dennis

 

[plug]

We normally fit softwood linings first, let the plasterer do his bit then remove them and fit the hardwood linings when the plaster has completely dried.

 

[RogerS]

Dennis

What I meant was that if you stood in the doorway and looked at the jamb then the width would not be consistent all the way down. So I'd either have to scribe the new door surround (liner whatever) to follow this line so that when I fixed the architraves they would be tight down against the plastered wall OR keep the width constant but then have the architrave standing away from the plaster.

In hindsight fitting temporary linings would have been best with perhaps a stop bead to give a clean break line when they were removed ...although that's probably a bit of a luxury given that the break line will be hidden behind the architrave. They did use stop beads around the oak beams in one of the Grand Designs so that when the inevitable shrinkage arose of the oak, you were left with a neat clean line at the plaster...clever idea but fiddly.

hc - slipping the floorboards (t&g) underneath wouldn't have been possible since the ffl wasn't set in stone at that point in time. Also because of the direction of the floorboards, any running through the doorway would have needed one or other ends cut around the liner.

Reading some of the suggestions also highlights that maybe the best approach for any given situation is going to depend on the nature of the project. It will be different for a new build or extension and different again for a refurbishment like this one

 

[dennis]

Roger,

I thought that was what you meant.

In most cases it is far more important to keep the linings straight, filling behind architraves is secondary to door fitting problems.

There are exceptions one being sympathetic to existing work.

On new work you strive to fit linings,plumb, straight,parallel, and heads level, both for appearance and ease of door fitting.

Dennis

 

[Derek Willis.]

In all my years of construction, this has ocurred a few times, always fit either a ground or false lining which can be removed afterward.
Derek.

 

[SBJ]

lots of good suggestions for what you "should" have done, but this is what you can do to correct what has happened.

Firstly, get your level and check the plasterwork, if you have any really high spots get your sander out and knock them back as true as possible without destroying the finish.

Next fit your linings to the max width of the wall/plasterwork. Make sure that they are plumb and the head is level. This is so important, do not scribe your linings to the wall, this will cause you more problems later on.

When it comes to fitting you architrave, there are a couple of things you can do. You can fit the architrave straight and fill the inevitable gaps and paint to match. Alternatively, you can take a wide groove out of the back of the architrave so that you have point contact at the two extremes of the architrave. This should enable you to fir the architrave flush with the lining and wall.

Not sure how well I explained it so ask if you have any question!

(I think that this has been explained on here before by "the village idiot" but I cant find the reference)

 

[dennis]

Stuart,

You are correct in saying make the lining to suit the widest point of plaster if fitting after plastering. If you do this there is no need to rebate the back of the architrave, which is what I take you to mean by a groove.

Also, if you rebate the architraves, and the skirtings are the same thickness you need to either reduce the skirting thickness, use plinth blocks, or put a round or chamfer on the end of the skirting, which depending on the profile can look crappy.

Dennis

 

[SBJ]

Stuart,

You are correct in saying make the lining to suit the widest point of plaster if fitting after plastering. If you do this there is no need to rebate the back of the architrave, which is what I take you to mean by a groove.

Also, if you rebate the architraves, and the skirtings are the same thickness you need to either reduce the skirting thickness, use plinth blocks, or put a round or chamfer on the end of the skirting, which depending on the profile can look crappy.

Dennis

Not quite Dennis, have a look at this...

its not a rebate but a groove and works where linings are both proud and shy of the lining.