options for a lathe upgrade - suggestions for various prices

[miles_hot]

With my 40th coming up there is always the possibility that I'll have the option of upgrading my lathe to something that doesn't vibrate and can handle offset, hollowing, big stuff etc.

What would you suggest at the following price points:?

£500
£1000
£1500
£2000
£3000 and above?

I'd be really interested in your thoughts and any reasoning (if there's radical differences between new and old and you have strong views either way feel free to suggest from either or both markets!)

Thanks

Miles

 

[OldWood]

Miles - let me be the first to ask what lathe you have at the moment and whether your turning is seriously ambitious as far as project size is concerned or just the average run-of-the-mill hobby turner?

These are parameters that do decide quite what sort of machine you should be looking for.

Having started with what might indicate that I have a vast amount of knowledge, I then should really bale out as I'm only a three year old beginner ! But I had to make some of these decisions. I rejected straight away going down the path of a modern cheap lathe to start with and took the option of an older heavy CI base machine without consulting anyone ( I hadn't found this site's fount of knowledge then).

I now know that the downside of the older machines is the non-standard nose threads and, certainly on the two I have worked on, the noise that comes from having a long belt. You also have to work on them to get variable speed. The plus side of course is the sheer weight and hence stability of the machines.

I use a modern machine at the local woodcraft club and appreciate its silence (direct drive from the motor), but find it's press button digital speed control irritating in contrast to a simple knob control that I have at home.
Without knowing the make of these at this moment, I do find that the quality of the everything is poorer than my Wadkins Bursgreen.

Rob

 

[Richard Findley]

Hi Miles,

I think price points are probably the easiest way of getting suggestions, as OW says it does depend upon what you need as well. Allow me to offer my thoughts, you can then do with them what suits you best :wink:

£500:

We're looking at an M950 frm Axminster:

This is £457.50, I think you already have a Perform CCL so it is very similar although I would think with better belts,bearings and finish. Probably not a big enough improvement to be worth while though.

You could look at Record, a CL3 would be £499.99:

The guys that own them usually rave about them but the thing that puts me off is the puny 3/4" x 16tpi thread and the 1MT fittings.

£1000:

A lot of guys on here have bought the AWVSWL1200 from Axi at £880.94 which is the first to have electronic variable speed:

The only negative comments I have heard about it so far are that it is roughly finished off and needs a little fine tuning but generally good reviews.

I own the Jet 1442 which has served me well for the last 5 years, has mechanical variable speed, is very heavy and well engineered for £848.50:

Or you could try a Nova lathe from Record:

I personally don't like the Nova/Super Nova lathes and there have been recent quality issues according to some threads on here although Record's customer service seems to be well rated.

Any thing above £1000 will probably have electric variable speed and from £1500 you can start looking at the likes of Vicmarc 175:

Over £2000 then Wivamac and the bigger Jet lathes come into reach and over £3000 then VBs become possible!!!!!

If you fancy old school cast Iron you vould check out Daltons in Nottingham: http://www.daltonsmachines.com/osb/showitem.cfm/category/Lathes_49 with their range of used Wadkins starting at £750 +Vat.

Hope that helps rather than confuses!!!

Cheers

Richard

 

[wizer]

Out of those available brand new, I rate, VicMarc, WoodFast (tho have my reservations about Record), OneWay (obviously), WivaMac and VB.

Don't discount 2nd hand. Both my lathes have been top quality, no issues with them and I got them seriously reduced from retail. If you have time and cash then bide your time and wait for the deal to come up. It might be a good idea to drop Blister a line and ask him to keep his ear to the ground for you, he seems to have a nose for these things.

 

[cambournepete]

I rather like Wivamac - I really must post a review of mine sometime...

 

[miles_hot]

Miles - let me be the first to ask what lathe you have at the moment and whether your turning is seriously ambitious as far as project size is concerned or just the average run-of-the-mill hobby turner?

These are parameters that do decide quite what sort of machine you should be looking for.

Having started with what might indicate that I have a vast amount of knowledge, I then should really bale out as I'm only a three year old beginner ! But I had to make some of these decisions. I rejected straight away going down the path of a modern cheap lathe to start with and took the option of an older heavy CI base machine without consulting anyone ( I hadn't found this site's fount of knowledge then).

I now know that the downside of the older machines is the non-standard nose threads and, certainly on the two I have worked on, the noise that comes from having a long belt. You also have to work on them to get variable speed. The plus side of course is the sheer weight and hence stability of the machines.

I use a modern machine at the local woodcraft club and appreciate its silence (direct drive from the motor), but find it's press button digital speed control irritating in contrast to a simple knob control that I have at home.
Without knowing the make of these at this moment, I do find that the quality of the everything is poorer than my Wadkins Bursgreen.

Rob

Rob
Thanks for the reminder to stte what I want to do! I want to be able to:
* Turn reasonable hollow items
* Use core savers
* Turn wall platters up to say 2'
* Turn out of shape items
* Produce pens
* Spindle work (in time)

I'd like the machine (what ever price point) to be
* quiet
* as vibration free as possible
* viariable speed with out having to mess around with belts for every change (my current Perform CCL has a lever which is good but my Father in Laws's Graduate requires a belt change for every speed change and that's right out - though a 3 phase via convertor/inverter would solve that)
* able to use my Versachuck

Thanks

Miles

 

[miles_hot]

Richard

Thanks for the fulsome reply - lots to think about there.

I notice you stayed in the "moder" world - is there a reason for this or is it just where your experience lies?

Regards

Miles
PS I always get very confused by Vicmarc vs WivaMac as the names just don't distinguish themselve to me I'll have to learn that one!

 

[miles_hot]

Out of those available brand new, I rate, VicMarc, WoodFast (tho have my reservations about Record), OneWay (obviously), WivaMac and VB.

Don't discount 2nd hand. Both my lathes have been top quality, no issues with them and I got them seriously reduced from retail. If you have time and cash then bide your time and wait for the deal to come up. It might be a good idea to drop Blister a line and ask him to keep his ear to the ground for you, he seems to have a nose for these things.

I assume from Richard's mail that the majority of your rated ones sit in the 1K plus bracket?

I'm certainly not discounting 2nd hand and dropping Blister a line is a good idea - thanks for the thought (though I don't want to mess him around as I will not know the score till nearer to / after my Birthday); mind you it would be cool to have it for the bash...

Miles

 

[miles_hot]

I rather like Wivamac - I really must post a review of mine sometime...

yes please

 

[wizer]

I don't know the prices involved to be honest, but it would right to assume 1k +

What you need to think about is how much you like turning and how long you think you'll be doing it for. If the answer is VERY MUCH and FOREVER then it would be wise to go for the very best you can afford. Every time you 'upgrade' you loose some money. I may have had a huge outlay for my lathe, but I will never need another (unless I fancy a VB )

 

[cornucopia]

Hello mile's

I agree with Tom if yoru oin it foir the long haul buy the best you can afford.

If space is an issue-I was very impressed with Paul.J's Vicmarc 175 when i used it last year- the quality of the machine work etc was excellent- the bonus of the swiveling headstock in a smaller workshop and for learning hollow form work would be very handy.

 

[Richard Findley]

Hi Miles,

There's nothing wrong with second hand, depends again on what you want. I think of it like buying a car, you can go new, showroom fresh, used but from a dealer (like the Daltons link I posted) where you will pay a bit more but have some peice of mind with them being fully serviced and some sort of guarentee or you could go Ebay, in which case you takes your chance....

My preference is for new although I am rather taken with the Wadkin RS. Not been made since the late 70s I believe but still some about. The only thing that puts me off is the noise thing. I have enough machinery that requires ear muffs, I don't want to wear them all day whilst turning as well!!! The RS is the only one with the type of capacity I need to make it worth upgrading as I already have 1500mm between centres and can turn a 14" bowl without turning the headstock. I think my Jet 1442 will keep me going for a few years yet.

Cheers

Richard

 

[Maurice D]

I read with interest Richard’s advice on lathes to buy but he raised a point I did not understand. Whilst speaking favourably about the Record he was disappointed that it had a 1 MT and a puny ¾ 16TPI thread. As somebody who had never heard of a morse taper until I bought my first lathe can somebody explain the significance of this. I am debating at present whether to by a Record CL1-Cam, which Record are offering as a summer special of £299.99 which also has a 1 MT and looks like it would cope with the turning I do.

 

[Richard Findley]

Hi Maurice,

As I said, I know quite a few guys that own Record lathes and they all seem to love them, my only concern is the nose thread and the size of the morse taper. If you've only ever seen a 1mt then you would not have anythnig to compare it to but once you see the 2mt you understand. My lathe has a 1" x 8tpi nose thread, so is 1" thick/diameter and has 8 "teeth" per inch of thread. You can sketch this roughly on a bit of paper. The Record has a 3/4" diam with 16 teeth per inch. Compare the two and see what I mean.

The smaller fitting is no problem for most work but when you put larger heavier stuff on I would be a little concerned. Also, if you buy this lathe and then need to upgrade later there are more lathes that have a 1" x 8tpi or even a 33mm x 3.5 (larger metric thread) and, IMHO a 2MT is more common also.

Sorry if this has put you off buying. As I say, I'm sure there are plenty of folk very happy with their Records.

Richard

 

[Bodrighy]

You can get converters to change the morse size but I'd go along with Richard. Record lathes that I have worked on have all had banjos that really bugged me as well. Good strong lathes but I'd rather have the Jet or, money allowing Wivamac or Vicamarc. Whatever you are turning now it can be almost guaranteed there will come a point that you will want to turn something bigger sooner or later :lol:

Pete

 

[TheTiddles]

Those Wadkin lathes are really nice, even the cheap (£750 = not actually cheap) has a rack and pinion tool post which could easily hold carbide tools for fast stock removal, super accurate tapers etc... I've never been interested in old heavy machines but that may be changing...

Aidan

 

[frugal]

Hi Maurice,

As I said, I know quite a few guys that own Record lathes and they all seem to love them, my only concern is the nose thread and the size of the morse taper. If you've only ever seen a 1mt then you would not have anythnig to compare it to but once you see the 2mt you understand. My lathe has a 1" x 8tpi nose thread, so is 1" thick/diameter and has 8 "teeth" per inch of thread. You can sketch this roughly on a bit of paper. The Record has a 3/4" diam with 16 teeth per inch. Compare the two and see what I mean.

The smaller fitting is no problem for most work but when you put larger heavier stuff on I would be a little concerned. Also, if you buy this lathe and then need to upgrade later there are more lathes that have a 1" x 8tpi or even a 33mm x 3.5 (larger metric thread) and, IMHO a 2MT is more common also.

Sorry if this has put you off buying. As I say, I'm sure there are plenty of folk very happy with their Records.

Richard

When I was looking for my new lathe I happened to be at Yandles with an engineer friend. His comment was that from an engineering perspective the loads that wood turning puts on the taper and thread are not a problem for a 3/4x16 1MT spindle. Obviously there is no such thing as overkill, so the bigger the better.

 

[KTMP]

Hello Miles,
We have three different Oneway models in our school here in Lincolnshire.
They're not cheap, but you certainly get your money's worth!
If you'd like to come over for a visit - NO CHARGE - with me, you can try them all out for size.
As an appointed Oneway dealer, I can offer a very attractive package should your decision be swayed to Oneway.
We have: 2436 (3hp) 4 x 1640 (2hp) and a 1236 SD Sit-Down lathe.
I'm going to be away on business until 28th June, but you can get hold of me at:
[email protected]
and I'll reply when I can get a connection.

Best regards,
Karl Tickle
KTMP Woodturning School of Excellence

 

[big soft moose]

£1000:

A lot of guys on here have bought the AWVSWL1200 from Axi at £880.94 which is the first to have electronic variable speed:

The only negative comments I have heard about it so far are that it is roughly finished off and needs a little fine tuning but generally good reviews.

Thats what i've got and i'd certainly rate it - the reason i bought it over the jet is that it has a 2hp motor as opposed to the jet's 1hp

apart from the rough finish (which only took me about an hour with a sanding block to sort out - its basically on the legs- the only downside is that it doesnt have a rotating headstock. But that said it will do 18" dia over the bed, and 30" with the optional outboard turning attachment (I dont have one of those yet but its on the tuit list ).

you (miles) are welcome to come and play with it once i've sorted out the huge heap of wood its currently hiding under

 

[Jenx]

Can only 2nd what George said about PaulJ's Vicmarc ... it's a really well made piece of machinery. A proper 'quality' bit of kit.

One day : ....

8) :lol: 8) :lol: I want that !!!