One-jab efficacy questions

[alanpo68]

As I said, I don't accept your evidence, just like you don't accept mine

You don't provide any though. A one word answer 'wrong' isn't evidence.

 

[Selwyn]

That as a generalisation is not true, certainly not supported by the data we have for Covid.

The argument for natural infection is the patient develops immune response to more than one protein. However for Covid, where the spike protein is key to infection that is the obvious protein to target. It almost certainly why the variants have not escaped the vaccine so far.

What about the people who have been asymptomatic or even mild ill ie the majority of covid "cases"? Their own immune system has statistically appeared to serve them very well

 

[Selwyn]

Dishonest debating.....classic strawman.
Nobody was saying it s unique to Covid.

What we are saying is long Covid is serious and many people are suffering.

Lockdown is also serious and many people are suffering.

 

[alanpo68]

That funny because there are an awful lot of nosocomial covid cases. It was a massive driver in the number of cases

That was because of the horrific lack of PPE. Medical professionals having to reuse masks and using makeshift gowns.

 

[Selwyn]

In your opinion.....which is wrong

Oh perhaps you are right, it's so bad, the NHS are opening 80 long Covid clinics - just for fearmongering

"More than 80 new clinics to assess patients suffering with symptoms of long Covid are to be opened by the NHS by the end of this month"

It's terrible the way 850 healthcare workers have died from Covid, just for fearmongering


My niece has a colleague suffering heart problems from Covid and can't workmfull time now......maybe that's all lies and it's just fearmongering.

How many people do you know - exactly you know yourself who have died from covid who weren't pretty old and infirm?

 

[Selwyn]

That was because of the horrific lack of PPE. Medical professionals having to reuse masks and using makeshift gowns.

There was a lack of PPE in the beginning. A lot was being hoarded too. It was a tricky situation for sure. There is no doubt covid was all over the country last march and most probably before xmas too.

But don't kid yourself nosocomial infection was just in March last year. If you think the future is so terrifying then tell me why the nightingales have all been disbanded?

 

[Selwyn]

Thats very interesting.

Europe is now getting on with vaccine roll out and it seems likely most of the big EU countries will have vaccinated most adults by July....and EU has potential for high levels of vaccine manufacture - so we may see vaccines being distributed to these risk countries such as India towards the summer

Are you finally acknowedging risk for the young is massively less than for the old? If you think covid is still the great threat you claim then I'm stunned that you are not advocating injecting everyone from birth to death

 

[alanpo68]

There was a lack of PPE in the beginning. A lot was being hoarded too. It was a tricky situation for sure.

But don't kid yourself nosocomial infection was just in March last year. If you think the future is so terrifying then tell me why the nightingales have all been disbanded?

The Nightingales have been disbanded because the lockdowns and vaccines have worked. Look at places like India where they haven't been able to control the spread of the virus.

 

[alanpo68]

Are you finally acknowedging risk for the young is massively less than for the old? If you think covid is still the great threat you claim then I'm stunned that you are not advocating injecting everyone from birth to death

COVID has killed 3.5 m people worldwide of course it is a great threat.

 

[RobinBHM]

Are you finally acknowedging risk for the young is massively less than for the old? If you think covid is still the great threat you claim then I'm stunned that you are not advocating injecting everyone from birth to death

Childish strawman and ad hominem awfully tedious

You can't debate honestly because you are debating from a position that is wrong.

You are welcome to continue believing your own hogwash, but I do wish you would stop subjecting us to it.

 

[RobinBHM]

Lockdown is also serious and many people are suffering.

Whataboutery.

 

[D_W]

Whataboutery.

pot, meet kettle.

 

[RobinBHM]

How many people do you know - exactly you know yourself who have died from covid who weren't pretty old and infirm?

Whataboutery.

The NHS are opening loads of long Covid clinics.

Why are you avoiding commenting on that?

 

[RobinBHM]

pot, meet kettle.

Untrue.

I have responded directly to each of Selwyn points.

Zero whataboutery.

Selwyn however can't debate honestly because he is arguing from a position that is demonstrably untrue.

 

[Rorschach]

You don't provide any though. A one word answer 'wrong' isn't evidence.

I tried in the past, he ignores it.

 

[Rorschach]

How many people do you know - exactly you know yourself who have died from covid who weren't pretty old and infirm?

I know one person who possibly died with covid in Feb 2020, they were in their mid 90's and riddled with dementia, their death was a blessing really. Otherwise no one I know, or anyone I know knows has died.

 

[Rorschach]

Untrue.

I have responded directly to each of Selwyn points.

Zero whataboutery.

Selwyn however can't debate honestly because he is arguing from a position that is demonstrably untrue.

Wicker man, ad homonym!

 

[John Brown]

Wicker man, ad homonym!

What, exactly, do either of those terms mean?

 

[TominDales]

What about the people who have been asymptomatic or even mild ill ie the majority of covid "cases"? Their own immune system has statistically appeared to serve them very well

That is perfectly true, but its a risky strategy as those whose immune system does not respond to covid are at risk of getting a nasty disease. The older and the more vulnerable would be far safer getting a vaccine. For children ie below age 11 the data seems to suggest they are fine without the vaccine, very few get complications. For teenage the data is a mixed. I know of older teenagers who have been seriously ill.

There is a risk that those who were asymptomatic or mildly ill with covid first time round, may not be immune to the Indian and other new variants, some of which are implicated with higher mortality and serious illiness in the young. Data on this is only just emerging in India so we really dont know, but its something to watch as that would change the risk profile.

 

[Selwyn]

The Nightingales have been disbanded because the lockdowns and vaccines have worked. Look at places like India where they haven't been able to control the spread of the virus.

The vaccines have worked. The lockdown wasn't necessary. Particularly 12 months plus of in/out lockdown

India. I don't think any countries have particularly managed to control the spread of the virus once its endemic.