New Laws vs Mail Order Tools

[aesmith]

Hi,
As in the subject, is anyone else worried about the Offensive Weapons Bill that's currently going through parliament? All the publicity is all about knives and weapons, but the actual proposed law would affect any "bladed article", only marginally qualified as articles "capable of causing a serious injury to a person which involves cutting that person’s skin." So my read is that it would impact mail order sales of all sorts of woodworking tools as well as the tools of other trades like fishing or even hairdressing.

For the detail, see here .. https://services.parliament.uk/Bills/20 ... ments.html

Tony S

 

[SteveW1000]

Having a quick read seems it could impact on the supply of woodworking tools also the supply of corrosive substancies to residential property could mean everything from the mail order of drain cleaner to home metal plating and welding. Time to ask my MP some questions.

 

[JohnPW]

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/b ... #pb3-l1g15

Delivery of bladed products to residential premises etc

(1) This section applies if—

(a) a person (“the seller”) sells a bladed product to another person (“the buyer”), and

(b) the seller and the buyer are not in each other’s presence at the time of the sale.

(2)
The seller commits an offence if, for the purposes of supplying the bladed product to the buyer, the seller delivers the bladed product, or arranges for its delivery, to residential premises.

(3) The seller commits an offence if, for the purposes of supplying the bladed product to the buyer, the seller delivers the bladed product, or arranges for its delivery, to a locker.

(4) For the purposes of subsection (1)(b) a person (“A”) is not in the presence of another person (“B”) at any time if—

(a) where A is an individual, A or a person acting on behalf of A is not in the presence of B at that time;

(b) where A is not an individual, a person acting on behalf of A is not in the presence of B at that time.

It seems the plan is to outlaw the mail order selling of bladed items to residential addresses?!

The effect is going to be huge!

What about if the blade is completely blunt?

Or delivery to your work address, if you've got one.

 

[t8hants]

Once again the criminals and idiots win as the law abiding have their rights further eroded. I hope they are going to include sharpened pencils on the list as you can stab some stone dead with a sharpened pencil.

 

[Racers]

Rusty compass in my day!

Pete

 

[sammy.se]

I'm all in favour of very tightly controlled sale of corrosive substances. Lots of attacks in my area (London) and they are life changing injuries.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

 

[AndyT]

I've had a quick look at the Explanatory Note, which is a bit easier to read than the legislation.

I agree with the OP - it does seem that the intention is to stop any remote sale of "bladed products" and that the definition of a bladed item is ridiculously wide.

It does look like the bill, if passed, will kill off millions of innocent transactions where law abiding people order kitchen gadgets, tools for gardening, dress making - and woodworking - because there are no specialist shops selling those things!

I think it's an utterly stupid idea from politicians who think that criminals read up on all the laws and obey them.

This bill will not stop bad people injuring anyone. Bringing about social and economic conditions in which people don't need to commit crimes could be the answer, but it needs a level of dedication and wisdom which our government and legislature lack.

 

[aesmith]

I don't think there's a lot of awareness or understanding of this, seeing only the intention to control what they see as obvious weapons. For example a work colleague was quite dismissive along the lines of "there's no argument, knives are dangerous and need to be controlled". Not only was he unaware that items other than knives would be controlled, but he was even surprised that a Stanley Knife would fall within the definitions. I'll bet there have been more injuries from attacks with a Stanley knives than from zombie knives.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

"there's no argument, knives are dangerous and need to be controlled". So we stop totally innocent people carrying knives and see people stabbed to death by scrotes with a screwdriver. I wonder what they'll use when we ban the sale of screwdrivers? :?
(I've carried a knife since I was eight years old and don't see why I should stop now.)

 

[t8hants]

The problem is anything can be used as a weapon, so as you slide down the scale of offensive items banning each one in turn, so the next is taken up. Presumable as a 4" nail through a piece of wood is very offensive so nails must come under the ban, or long screws. Once we get away from sharp potential weapons and move on to blunt objects then the list will get unmanageable.
However what I am getting fed up with is losing rights, simply because cities have a problems the rest of the country doesn't. If London disappeared off the face of the earth taking its benighted inhabitants with it, the rest of the country could get on with normal life instead of being tarnished by the activities of the mass lunatic asylum.

 

[Peter Sefton]

Maybe there is still a place for bricks and motar shops after all.

Cheers Peter

 

[Sawdust=manglitter]

Maybe there is still a place for bricks and motar shops after all.

Cheers Peter

Unfortunately that’s doesn’t help anyone (like me) that doesn’t live anywhere near a choice of bricks and mortar shops, which would also mean the remote shops could name their price as there will be no other choice without a minimum of 1hrs drive

 

[Peter Sefton]

Maybe there is still a place for bricks and motar shops after all.

Cheers Peter

Unfortunately that’s doesn’t help anyone (like me) that doesn’t live anywhere near a choice of bricks and mortar shops, which would also mean the remote shops could name their price as there will be no other choice without a minimum of 1hrs drive

Doesn't help me either running an tool shop where most of the business is online, just trying to look on the bright side, it's amazing how things come around in circles.

Cheers Peter

 

[thetyreman]

best buy all them planes, chisels and knives now then before it's illegal

 

[Sideways]

No, that's utterly defeatist. While the chances of anyone listening is low, as I believe they all just want the PR value of saying "look at us, we did something about this awful problem", best email the bloody ***** politicians so they can't say they didn't know the consequences of their actions.

 

[Tasky]

"there's no argument, knives are dangerous and need to be controlled".

Point out to this person that I could do FAR more damage to them with a 28" walking stick than any knife...

This is just like when they put bans on 'samurai swords', while leaving out every other kind of sword. It's just BS reactions and panic banning of whatever people are using at the time.

 

[aesmith]

Or delivery to your work address, if you've got one.

My read of the documents is that delivery to residential addresses will be completely prohibited. And delivery to non-residential addresses will have to be by a carrier that is prepared to verify the age of the person they hand the package to.

I could be wrong, but I can't see anything removing that age verification requirement for business addresses, or any exception to the prohibition on residential addresses.

 

[clanger]

"15(2) - The seller commits an offence if, for the purposes of supplying the bladed
product to the buyer, the seller delivers the bladed product, or arranges for its
delivery, to residential premises."
Does this mean that Axminster's cannot deliver a 100kg Planer Thicknesser to my home address, just in case I intend to use it in a violent attack.

 

[LeeElms]

And presumably no more services to sharpen saw & planer blades by post?

 

[RogerP]

eBay have for a long time been very iffy about listings containing the word "blade"