New Graphite Clifton 5 1/2 Passaround

[Peter Sefton]

Interesting videos Peter, its fascinating to see how many processes are involved in making a plane and the trouble that is taken to ensure the castings are stable etc

Cheers
Richard
.

It has gone a little quiet but we do all have busy lives.

I have finally managed to post the videos that I made last year with Mick Hudson from Clifton. You may find out a little more about Clifton's from watching them or just think it's two ageing men talking about planes! (which it is)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5ZN80PKDco

Cheers Peter

Thanks Richard, I learnt a lot talking with Mick about some of the finer points of plane design. We tried to cover most of them within the videos but trying to edit a fews hours into twenty something minutes is tricky.

We posted one more yesterday and the final one goes out next Friday.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGTUHoPEobM

Cheers Peter

 

[richarddownunder]

Must say I'm a fan of the 2-piece cap iron. The SS Record plane I have (pictured) that was rescued from certain death is one of my favorites (no, the table isn't very flat is it!). I think the cap iron function is probably underestimated. I made a 3 mm thick stainless steel cap iron, not a 2-part job, but even that (pictured) improved my #5 standard Record a great deal. IMHO the 2-piece is even better at pressing down on the blade.

Anyway, not having seen the Clifton 51/2 in any of its its graphite glory, I have still just ordered one along with a pear-handled Pax dovetail saw. I'll post my impressions of the new plane compared with my 2005 Clifton #4 when it arrives in a few weeks time. I'm hoping it will be as good or better in terms of fit and finish!

 

[mtr1]

Did you send it Graham? No biggy if you haven't.

 

[G S Haydon]

Mark, no! I'm so sorry to keep holding this up! I can sense the need to use the beast is growing, will be with you shortly!

 

[mtr1]

Like I said no biggy, I was just worried it had got lost.

 

[G S Haydon]

Mark, it's being collected by Hermes tomorrow. Sorry to both Peter & Mark for taking so long!

 

[Peter Sefton]

No worries

Cheers Peter

 

[G S Haydon]

Thanks Peter! It's been fun trying out the WR and C.

 

[mtr1]

The plane has landed.....

 

[Peter Sefton]

Thanks for letting me know, just an update the new ones are now coming with a brand new brass Yoke.

https://www.facebook.com/woodworkerswor ... tif_t=like

Cheers Peter

 

[richarddownunder]

Nice to see the frog from my new 51/2 featuring ! The plane has landed in NZ but sadly the customs have nabbed it. Hopefully I can extract it from their sticky mits quickly after parting with appropriate cash and am really looking forward to making some shavings.

What is the purpose of moving to a brass Y lever? Is it just smoother operation, brass being 'self lubricating'?

Cheers
Richard

 

[mtr1]

So the plane arrived yesterday, and I had some doors to shoot in and hang this morning so thought this would be a nice test of the plane and the important bit for me, the iron. The reason for wanting to try this plane was twofold, I'm in the market for a new No 7 so thought this plane is of similar size and would give me an overview of the quality of Clifton, and would give me a chance to try the iron out. I have had variable results with modern irons from the states, at least the ones I've tried, so I needed to try before I buy so to speak. Anyway on with the test.

It looks nice, but that's not important to me as long as it works. The casting looks clean and tidy, the sides and sole are nicely polished, and flat and true. There are a couple of dings here and there, but presumably this wouldn't be the same as one sent to a client?



the front knob screw protrudes too much for me, but that's an easy fix, but why is it like that? That said it didn't effect any of my work today because I don't hold the knob with my palm down on top. If you do hold the knob palm down, you are going to get a blister if you don't address this imho.



The iron was the bit I was looking forward to trying out the most, as I said above I've had variable results from another well know American manufacturer. I wanted to try this iron side by side with the T10 irons I've been using for a few years now with great results. The iron came dull for me to sharpen to my liking...I think So I sharpened it my way by hand on a fine diamond stone, then on to some very fine slate followed by taking the burr off. Only it didn't come off, upon further inspection I noticed the ruler trick had been applied, I don't normally bother doing this but seeing as it had been done already I did the same, followed by stropping. Hairs bouncing off my arm the planing can begin.



I've no idea what Cryogenic treating does to an iron? So I just cracked on with the doors for this Oak wardrobe, Oak is probably my most used timber so this is a decent test for iron.



Test cut, shiny.



Shoot the top in.



And one side.





I repeated this four times and the job is done.



My impressions are that this iron may have the edge on the T10 and the plane is lovely to use, so looks like I may need to save some pennies for the No 7.


so you can hear it's still sharp on my last door, clickity click.



I also used the plane on a shooting board to make some door stops, still sharp.



Overall I like the plane and iron so I would recommend it, I have only used it on native hardwoods so far, so would like to keep it a bit longer if I may?

 

[Peter Sefton]

Nice to see the frog from my new 51/2 featuring ! The plane has landed in NZ but sadly the customs have nabbed it. Hopefully I can extract it from their sticky mits quickly after parting with appropriate cash and am really looking forward to making some shavings.

What is the purpose of moving to a brass Y lever? Is it just smoother operation, brass being 'self lubricating'?

Cheers
Richard

Wow Richard that was quick I only packed it on Tuesday or Wednesday!

The original cast Yoke was designed as a pressure valve and designed to snap if over stressed. The feeling was this would be better than shearing any threads if users over tensioned the lever cap. I have only know one to break this was from a strapping big lad that had previously done a short course with us. We carry spares and sent one out to him FOC. I understand this has been an area of contension and have heard on this forum people unhappy with this pressure valve idea.

When Flinn's took over the Clifton range they introduced a new welded Yoke which is in the current plane on pass around. After testing the plane I gave them my personal feedback which was that although the Yoke was perfectly serviceable I felt is didn't look as good as the previous version. They have been working on and have now released the new cast brass version which I feel looks much better.

Cheers Peter

 

[Paul Chapman]

the front knob screw protrudes too much for me, but that's an easy fix, but why is it like that? That said it didn't effect any of my work today because I don't hold the knob with my palm down on top. If you do hold the knob palm down, you are going to get a blister if you don't address this imho.

Mark, if you unscrew the brass nut, you'll probably find that there are two or three washers underneath. Remove these and it will lower the level of the brass nut.

Nice review.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Peter Sefton]

So the plane arrived yesterday, and I had some doors to shoot in and hang this morning so thought this would be a nice test of the plane and the important bit for me, the iron. The reason for wanting to try this plane was twofold, I'm in the market for a new No 7 so thought this plane is of similar size and would give me an overview of the quality of Clifton, and would give me a chance to try the iron out. I have had variable results with modern irons from the states, at least the ones I've tried, so I needed to try before I buy so to speak. Anyway on with the test.

It looks nice, but that's not important to me as long as it works. The casting looks clean and tidy, the sides and sole are nicely polished, and flat and true. There are a couple of dings here and there, but presumably this wouldn't be the same as one sent to a client?



the front knob screw protrudes too much for me, but that's an easy fix, but why is it like that? That said it didn't effect any of my work today because I don't hold the knob with my palm down on top. If you do hold the knob palm down, you are going to get a blister if you don't address this imho.



The iron was the bit I was looking forward to trying out the most, as I said above I've had variable results from another well know American manufacturer. I wanted to try this iron side by side with the T10 irons I've been using for a few years now with great results. The iron came dull for me to sharpen to my liking...I think So I sharpened it my way by hand on a fine diamond stone, then on to some very fine slate followed by taking the burr off. Only it didn't come off, upon further inspection I noticed the ruler trick had been applied, I don't normally bother doing this but seeing as it had been done already I did the same, followed by stropping. Hairs bouncing off my arm the planing can begin.



I've no idea what Cryogenic treating does to an iron? So I just cracked on with the doors for this Oak wardrobe, Oak is probably my most used timber so this is a decent test for iron.



Test cut, shiny.



Shoot the top in.



And one side.





I repeated this four times and the job is done.



My impressions are that this iron may have the edge on the T10 and the plane is lovely to use, so looks like I may need to save some pennies for the No 7.


so you can hear it's still sharp on my last door, clickity click.



I also used the plane on a shooting board to make some door stops, still sharp.



Overall I like the plane and iron so I would recommend it, I have only used it on native hardwoods so far, so would like to keep it a bit longer if I may?

Mark

Thanks for taking the time to give the plane a good workout and sharing your thoughts.

I am pleased you like the plane and that you rate the new blade.

We blind tested the new steel last year for Clifton along with some others. We felt this steel out performed the others on test which included the old O1 blade which I later found out came second in our testing. This was not a scientific test just some woodworkers grinding,sharpening and planing a range of timbers and commenting on the results.

Please feel free to keep the plane a little longer to continue your assessment.

Cheers Peter

 

[Vann]

The plane has landed in NZ but sadly the customs have nabbed it. Hopefully I can extract it from their sticky mits quickly after parting with appropriate cash and am really looking forward to making some shavings.

That's unusual, in my experience. Usually customs don't bother with anything unless it's approaching $750 NZD (~ £370) and a Clifton No.5 1/2 when you take off the VAT should sell around £260 - which should come in under $550 NZD. I don't think they take the shipping cost into account when assessing GST?

Did you get Peter to fill the parcel with other bits and pieces (or drugs :wink: )?

Cheers, Vann.

 

[Peter Sefton]

The plane has landed in NZ but sadly the customs have nabbed it. Hopefully I can extract it from their sticky mits quickly after parting with appropriate cash and am really looking forward to making some shavings.

That's unusual, in my experience. Usually customs don't bother with anything unless it's approaching $750 NZD (~ £370) and a Clifton No.5 1/2 when you take off the VAT should sell around £260 - which should come in under $550 NZD. I don't think they take the shipping cost into account when assessing GST?

Did you get Peter to fill the parcel with other bits and pieces (or drugs :wink: )?

Cheers, Vann.

A few more little goodies from the UK

Cheers Peter

 

[mtr1]

Part two to follow, more of a side by side comparison this time.

 

[richarddownunder]

The plane has landed in NZ but sadly the customs have nabbed it. Hopefully I can extract it from their sticky mits quickly after parting with appropriate cash and am really looking forward to making some shavings.

That's unusual, in my experience. Usually customs don't bother with anything unless it's approaching $750 NZD (~ £370) and a Clifton No.5 1/2 when you take off the VAT should sell around £260 - which should come in under $550 NZD. I don't think they take the shipping cost into account when assessing GST?

Did you get Peter to fill the parcel with other bits and pieces (or drugs :wink: )?

Cheers, Vann.

Hi Vann

I have had things stopped at a little over $400 so I figured I'd probably have to pay something - anyway, yes I also got a dovetail saw (no drugs as far as I know) as posting individual items costs the earth...so its a bit of a gamble as sometimes customs miss them altogether. The ratbags also add handling fees, inspection fees, biosecurity fees, coffee break fees, you name it as well as GST. They also add GST to the fees, which really irritates me :evil: ! Anyway, its paid and the tools will be here tomorrow I hope. As Peter said, amazingly quick from UK to NZ.

 

[mtr1]

So I guess the Cliftons main contemporary is a L/N so lets put them side by side and see how it compares.

Lever caps, I'm only going to show the bit that counts which of course is the flat area that presses down on the cap iron. Here you can see that the clifton has more metal engaging on the cap iron than the L/N, not sure if this matters much but its a step in the right direction from Clifton. Both are well made, but if we are going for looks both have there plus points, bronze is more attractive perhaps but I like the polished surface on the Clifton and it says Clifton in case I forget which plane I'm using.



Frogs, The L/N has more surface to bear on at the top, but the important bit is at the bottom where both are the same. Take from that what you will.



Cap irons, top L/N, bot Clifton.



Right L/N, left Clifton. Notice the shine in the Clifton, this is a nice touch.



I noticed a tiny bit of play with the stay set cap iron, I've never used one or seen one so I will let others say if this is normal?





Lever arms, here I think L/N has the edge on the Clifton.





The fit when all back together, both nice and solid.





frog adjusting wheel.

Clifton.


L/N.


Handles, I found the Clifton more comfortable to use after prolonged periods, but I would be splitting hairs if I'm honest.







Onto the irons and planing, both sharpened by hand in this case, Clifton with the ruler trick, and the T10 not. Take from that what you will, but they are both sharp.







After they had both planed the Oak and the MDF they were both dull but could still plane and take a decent shaving. So I decided to get a piece of rock maple and plane a side a piece.

Gnarly bit of rock maple, I don't expect either to a decent job..and they didn't. The Clifton was the nicer to use, Mainly because of the bigger handle and the extra weight.



Both ended up looking like this.



So both were re-sharpened,, and both gave a lovely smooth surface with no tearout.



A few numbers if that makes any difference.

Blade thickness.

Clifton-3.42 mm
T10-3.12 mm
L/N A2 3.29 mm
L/N O1 3.21 mm

Backlash.

Clifton 1 full turn
L/N 1/2 turn

Sharpening time, don't know how useful this will be as one had the ruler trick, and I'm not used to the stayset cap iron.

L/N 1 min 50 second
Clifton 2 mins 40 seconds

Thinnest shaving I could get

L/N with T10 0.03 mm
Clifton 0.02 mm

In conclusion I found the machining on the L/N slightly better finished but that is reflected in the price. I feel that Clifton could get this right with perhaps 1/2hr or an hour extra time. This is only looks of course and has no bearing on what the the plane can do. They both plane very well, there isn't much in it tbh I couldn't pick between them, but if pushed I pick the Clifton over my L/N with T10 Iron fitted, the Clifton iron edges the T10. But I do like the look off the L/N......make the Clifton a bit nicer and I'm completely sold.