New Graphite Clifton 5 1/2 Passaround

[xy mosian]

Some really great reviews here, and the photography is superb.
However a question. I was expecting the frogs, of both planes, to be held in place by slot head screws. I cannot tell if hexagon heads have been used. If not then how is the frog loosened, to adjust or to be removed?

xy

 

[mtr1]

the front knob screw protrudes too much for me, but that's an easy fix, but why is it like that? That said it didn't effect any of my work today because I don't hold the knob with my palm down on top. If you do hold the knob palm down, you are going to get a blister if you don't address this imho.

Mark, if you unscrew the brass nut, you'll probably find that there are two or three washers underneath. Remove these and it will lower the level of the brass nut.

Nice review.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

I took the brass top bolt off and took a look, one washer, if I take that out the brass is bearing on the rosewood. The brass bolt is different to everyone of my other plane in that it has a domed top. I tried my hardest today to get a blister using it, but didn't anyway, but my hands are rather like leather.

 

[mtr1]

Some really great reviews here, and the photography is superb.
However a question. I was expecting the frogs, of both planes, to be held in place by slot head screws. I cannot tell if hexagon heads have been used. If not then how is the frog loosened, to adjust or to be removed?

xy

Both are Bedrock planes and adjust from the back, scroll up to my pic of the frog adjusting wheel and you will see how they are adjusted.

 

[xy mosian]

Ok I see how they can be adjusted.
Can the frog not be removed?
What happens if the the frog/bed is not tight enough?

xy

 

[Peter Sefton]

Ok I see how they can be adjusted.
Can the frog not be removed?
What happens if the the frog/bed is not tight enough?

xy

This is one of the videos I made last year with Mick Hudson of Clifton. In this video we dismantle and talk about the fixings and benefits of the Bedrock frog over the conventional system.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpRc4rsTSEE

This second video show me setting up another Bedrock frog in a WoodRiver plane, this is a bit more of a close up which might help explain the setting up procedure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDYM-4i45tI

Cheers Peter

 

[mtr1]

The funny thing with bedrock planes/ frogs in general, is that they are a bit like adjustable shelves, adjusted once then left alone. The frog can be removed via the two screws at the back, I think, like I said adjusted once then left alone it must be years since I've felt inclined to adjust mine.

 

[xy mosian]

Thank you both gentlemen.
I agree about the adjustment/ frog removal Mark, but I do like to know these things.
Peter, thank you for those links. As you say they explain everything.
xy

 

[Peter Sefton]

I noticed a tiny bit of play with the stay set cap iron, I've never used one or seen one so I will let others say if this is normal?

Hi Mark, thanks for taking the time to give it a full workout.

The Clifton two piece cap iron or stay set as they used to be called is designed to pivot on the back fixing pin. People are inclined to file these flat to (make a better fit) but this is a mistake. The intension is when the pressure from the lever cap is applied the cap iron or chip breaker will always sit dead flat on the blade at the cutting edge where the pressure is required. You noticed and mentioned the larger bearing area the Clifton gave at this position over the LN. This is because the Clifton was designed with the sole intention of being the most sturdy hand plane with the least amount of chatter. I remember talking with Alan Reid the previous MD and founder of Clifton planes he told me he never wanted it to be the pretty boy of planes!

When they started to develop the Clifton planes they studied all aspects of different makes and different vintages of bench planes in the Hawley collection in Sheffield. This involved measuring casting thicknesses, mouth openings, frog fixings and handles shapes.

They were determined to manufacture a workmanlike plane in the best English tradition including the cutting iron.

They wanted a plane that was solid, well balanced and re-assuringly rigid in its clamping of the cutting iron. The two piece cap iron may confer some benefit to some users when re-honing but its main benefit is in applying firm pressure at the exact points where it is needed; namely as close to the cutting edge of the iron as possible and for as long a length of the upper section of the cutting iron as possible. This allied to the thickness of the Clifton iron and the damping effect of the fixed flat part of the cap iron gives the most rigid clamping of any plane on the market. It was this that won it acclaim in Fine woodworking a few years ago.

My personal feeling is that the hand polished and buffed detailing on the Clifton does make it a pretty boy! possibly over the more machine finished but possibly crisper versions from North America.

The backlash you have found within the Clifton is disappointing but I hope this was down to the temporary Yoke that has now been replaced with the new cast brass version.

This video shows how the perceived benefits of the two piece cap iron have changed of the evolution of the hand plane.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGTUHoPEobM


Cheers Peter

 

[ali27]

Great information. Peter do Clifton also make thicker blades
than the usual 3.2-3.5mm? I need one that's about 4mm thick.
The hand forged cryo blade seems very interesting.

 

[Vann]

Thanks for the excellent review Mark.

The iron was the bit I was looking forward to trying out the most, as I said above I've had variable results from another well know American manufacturer. I wanted to try this iron side by side with the T10 irons I've been using for a few years now with great results.

My impressions are that this iron may have the edge on the T10...

I'm surprised and pleased to hear that. After the great things I've read above the T10 I thought it might out-perform the Clifton. I wonder how much better the Clifton cryogenic iron is over the previous Clifton iron (of which I have 4).

...the front knob screw protrudes too much for me, but that's an easy fix, but why is it like that?

I agree. If Flinn are looking to make inprovements, this would be a sensible one to put right.

...I noticed a tiny bit of play with the stay set cap iron, I've never used one or seen one so I will let others say if this is normal?

I've read Clifton's arguement that this provides a three point contact, allowing perfect alignment along the leading edge - which makes sense. But I notice that my Record stay-set cap-irons sit flat in that groove. I can't help wondering if Clifton are just taking an easy out for poor pressings (the cap-irons are pressed from flat sheet before machining).

My personal feeling is that the hand polished and buffed detailing on the Clifton does make it a pretty boy!

I agree. I think I like the aesthetics of the Lie-Nielsen planes better - but I'm very fond of my two green Cliffies (warts and all).

Cheers, Vann.

 

[Peter Sefton]

Great information. Peter do Clifton also make thicker blades
than the usual 3.2-3.5mm? I need one that's about 4mm thick.
The hand forged cryo blade seems very interesting.

All the Clifton blades are around 3.2mm thick, the reasoning is that the two piece cap iron adds to the thickness.

Cheers Peter

 

[mtr1]

Snippty snip

I remember talking with Alan Reid the previous MD and founder of Clifton planes he told me he never wanted it to be the pretty boy of planes!

My personal feeling is that the hand polished and buffed detailing on the Clifton does make it a pretty boy! possibly over the more machine finished but possibly crisper versions from North America.

The backlash you have found within the Clifton is disappointing but I hope this was down to the temporary Yoke that has now been replaced with the new cast brass version.




Cheers Peter

Alan Reid missed a trick IMHO by not finishing the plane a little better, the majority of premium plane users in the US are hobbyists and very loyal to the American market. They would need something better to shake their loyalty, is there a reason from the price point that Clifton can't step up and just change a few little niggles to make the plane perfect? They are after all virtually the same price, and a L/N plane is finished very well indeed.

From my point of view the Clifton is a lovely plane, but isn't quite there yet. One idea I had this morning was to buy the L/N No7, then marry this with a Clifton iron. The problem with this is L/N get the majority of my money, and I want to support a British company.

I am of course splitting hairs, the Clifton is a very good plane, but if the market demands a better product what then for Clifton? They have after all just been sold because they were failing, and IMHO because of that very British attitude of that will do!

I will go back to why can't they just address the very small niggles? I understand of course that Flinn have just taken over and have relaunched the plane, but could they of done a bit more field research I wonder?

No malice intended to Clifton the plane is very good, and I hope it does very well.

I hope the brass yoke does solve this too, the one in the plane I have is quite poor, but again works fine.

 

[ali27]

Well the LN and Clifton are both Bedrock planes. So the price should be somewhat the same. There is one big difference IMHO. The Clifton has a hand forged plane blade which adds to the price. The Clifton planes are also somewhat heavier I think. The fit and finish of the LN planes are better.

I wish they made the plane irons also in thicker sizes as a replacement blade for other planes.

Ali

 

[mtr1]

Yes, the iron is very good indeed. Just the lateral lever, the knob nut (sorry),the yoke, and the cap iron to go, and it's the best on the market. I wonder how much these trivial things would add to the cost really, £20-£30 on a plane? That would make it virtually the same cost as the L/N, I think people who are buying these planes me included wouldn't mind the cost if the plane really is the best.

These niggles are not enough for me to not buy one, but why not just make them better than the competition? They are in function already, just not the little bits that make the job right. All my own opinion of course, they are a very fine plane.

Would be interested in Peters opinion, as it sounds like he has been talking with Flinn about these planes.

 

[Paul Chapman]

Yes, the iron is very good indeed. Just the lateral lever, the knob nut (sorry),the yoke, and the cap iron to go, and it's the best on the market.

The brass nut on the front knob would be an easy fix. On the 10th Anniversary Cliftons, they fitted a slightly modified brass nut that was flatter and had a chamfered edge - not sure if it's clear from these pics of my Anniversary #4





All that would be necessary would be to get the height right during assembly.

The Y lever is now fixed with the introduction of the brass ones.

I don't agree about the cap iron - the Stay-set is by far the best cap iron available in my view.

All that leaves is the lateral lever.

Nearly there

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[mtr1]

I don't mean the function of the cap iron Paul, I didn't make myself clear. The cap iron came with a few burrs on, no biggy there just file them off, but the play in it means that when I place it back in, its not quite parallel with the front of the iron and can pivot half a mil. Again I haven't much experience with the two piece cap iron, but it doesn't feel right to me. Are yours the same?

 

[richarddownunder]

My new Clifton 51/2 has just arrived this morning from Peter :ho2 Inititial impressions are excellent fit and finish and, true to advertising, it works out of the box...couldn't help myself and had to make a few shavings in my pyjamas before heading off to work (not in pyjamas). I'll have a closer look tonight but it looks to be a better finished tool than my old Clifton #4 which I have been very happy with over the past decade. I particularly like the new (?) frog shape.

The graphite looks a lot better than I was expecting and the BRG looks a bit old fashioned IMHO in comparison (I'm surprised to say).

Also got a Pax 1776 Dovetail saw. Feels great in the hand and looks a treat too, so I can see some serious workshop time coming up!

Cheers
Richard

 

[iNewbie]

My new Clifton 51/2 has just arrived this morning from Peter :ho2 Inititial impressions are excellent fit and finish and, true to advertising, it works out of the box...couldn't help myself and had to make a few shavings in my pyjamas before heading off to work (not in pyjamas).

I hope that wasn't hair shavings, Richard down under. :lol:

 

[Peter Sefton]

My new Clifton 51/2 has just arrived this morning from Peter :ho2 Inititial impressions are excellent fit and finish and, true to advertising, it works out of the box...couldn't help myself and had to make a few shavings in my pyjamas before heading off to work (not in pyjamas). I'll have a closer look tonight but it looks to be a better finished tool than my old Clifton #4 which I have been very happy with over the past decade. I particularly like the new (?) frog shape.

The graphite looks a lot better than I was expecting and the BRG looks a bit old fashioned IMHO in comparison (I'm surprised to say).

Also got a Pax 1776 Dovetail saw. Feels great in the hand and looks a treat too, so I can see some serious workshop time coming up!

Cheers
Richard

Good to hear it reached you so quickly, have fun playing tonight!

Cheers Peter

 

[richarddownunder]

My new Clifton 51/2 has just arrived this morning from Peter :ho2 Inititial impressions are excellent fit and finish and, true to advertising, it works out of the box...couldn't help myself and had to make a few shavings in my pyjamas before heading off to work (not in pyjamas).

I hope that wasn't hair shavings, Richard down under. :lol:

That's how real blokes shave (if you haven't got a sharpened axe handy, that is).