Need to acquire new skills and tools

[skeetstar]

Fellas looking for some advice and guidance.

I have a mind to start making some furniture using steel framing and legs and I am just thinking about what I would need to be able top do that.

First up welding, I will need to have the framing welded up, but I can't weld, yet.

What is the best way to learn? Formal course? Get someone to show me? Hang around and watch other people do it and try a bit of Vulcan mind transfer? All I need to be able to do is make very simple corner welds.

I will only be welding mild steel. I will also need to cut stock (angle and box) to length, square ended or at 45deg.

Sort of assuming that I will need some sort of chop saw and electric welding kit. How much would a high end hobby welding kit set me back? If I go ahead with this I am planning to clear out a garage and use it as workshop, would a single 13a supply be good enough to run a welding unit off?

The whole effect I am looking for is 'rustic/industrial' so I am not worried about cleaning up welds, but would an angle grinder be worth having at all?

Value any comments you care to head my way, thanks.

 

[TFrench]

Chopsaw definately - we have a makita at work, its great. Also have an evolution rage one which is good for aluminium and wood with nails in but I wouldnt use it on steel much. Get a gas mig - gasless is rubbish. So long as you can use a mastic gun you can mig weld. Get some scrap and practice sticking it together. An angle grinder is indispensable if you're working with metal I'd say. You need to grind the scale off bare steel to get a good weld for starters. I use a 4" grinder with a flap disc in most of the time - its not as aggressive as a grinding disc.

 

[woodfarmer]

For the steel cutting I would get the Clarke 4 1/2 inch metal cutting bandsaw, they are still about but not sold by Clarke. I have had one for about 40 years, and it has never missed a beat. blades cheap from tuffsaws. Accurate and gentle to use.

Personally I would use a stick welder for that kind of welding you can always move it downhand which is easy, quick and cheap,

Sadly I can no longer electric weld and have had to revert to gas, great for fine work not so good or quick for heavier stuff.

 

[stevep]

As for high end hobby machines, it really does depend on what process you are going to use. You can get decent stick inverters nowadays from around 2 - 300 ish. Look for brands such as Parweld, Jasic, Thermalarc, R-tech.
A decent mig will be up around the £500 mark. Then you will need gas and regulator. The gas isn't that cheap so I agree with woodfarmer and would recommend stick.
A 4 1/2" angle grinder is a must when working with steel.
As for your power supply, you will need a 16 amp supply minimum otherwise you will most likely be tripping the breaker even though most suppliers claim you won't. The machine will run far better.
Learning to weld isn't easy but neither is it too difficult. The best way is to get someone to show you and then practice,practice and more practice ! You're not too far away from me, if you go ahead I could pay you a visit and give you a lesson.

 

[chaoticbob]

When I was in a similar situation I was advised to go with a stick (MMA) welder - I ended up with a Parweld 160 which cost £197 inc VAT from weldequip.com. It is rated for a 16A fuse for the full 160A output - I run mine from a 32A socket because I have one, but according to the weldequip website it will run a 4mm electrode (bigger than you need I think) at 140A from a standard 13A outlet without problems. You will also need a mask - I got an auto-darkening job from Amazon for about £25 - it works fine.
Regarding training - I just looked at internet tutorials and waded in. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWdgEaXWDxQ is pretty comprehensive. After a few hours practice I could make welds that stood up to vigorous attack with a hammer, though they wouldn't win any beauty contests!
Rob.

 

[sunnybob]

a couple of generations ago I went to night school at a technical college for welding classes.
Is that still possible?

 

[woodpig]

a couple of generations ago I went to night school at a technical college for welding classes.
Is that still possible?

Yes, when I looked a few years back they were still available. Probably the best way for a hobbyist to get a good start.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

A few years ago ... yes. They seem too be moving away from anything that's actually useful, though.

 

[sunnybob]

There are SOME good things about the internet....
https://www.warwickshire.ac.uk/courses/ ... ?k=welding

 

[skeetstar]

Fellas, thanks for all the input, most useful. Warwickshire college is not far away, I might just get in on the level 1 course. (They also have a good rep for their woodworking courses). Understand the need for an angle grinder, will sort one if I go forward with this. Thanks also for the youtube link, much appreciated.

16A is no problem to me.

Lastly, please excuse ignorance... for simple joints in 3mm stock, it looks like electric is OK, probably cheapest and easiest- Is that a fair reading of what folks think?

I do some work at a place that does offroading, they are always welding up Landrover bits, so my initial plan is to get some kit and rent some space off them to see if I get on with this... if I don't then it is is ebay for the kit, and one more lesson in life's rich tapestry.

Thanks all for your input, carefully read, and much valued.

 

[marcros]

Why not get one of the items made as a sample and see whether there is any interest for your products. You may even be able to make them to order to begin with- subcontracting out the welding if necessary. I suspect that most of the cost for "welding" is the preparation and clamping, and cleanup of tge weld afterwards. If you can do that yourself, getting somebody to weld it won't cost much at all.

 

[Togalosh]

I got myself a Clarke welding machine, had 5 minutes tutorial & have done 1 or 2 basic things well enough (but not that neatly).. & the things I weren't taught but which I needed to know & found out for myself is:

1) Welding gives you sunburn - so PPE is not just to guard sparks burning you.
2) The sparks are ridiculously hot & fly a bloody long way off, so anything remotely flammable nearby has a good chance of setting alight (I welded 10ft away from a sofa & only realised just how stoopid this was when reading up on welding sunburn).

..are the gases noxious too?.

Anyway, what I am saying is - read up on/YouTube welding safety before giving it a go.

HTH
Togs

 

[n0legs]

..are the gases noxious too?.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/lung-disease/welding.htm

 

[heimlaga]

A good COTTON boilersuit and a leather apron and a pair of long leather gloves are more or less mandatatory when welding.
Boiler suits made from synthetic materials are flammable and the seconds it takes to get out of a burning boilersuit are some of the longest seconds in a lifetime.

 

[t8hants]

Setting your hair on fire, sparks down your boot and in the ear are also one of the many hidden benefits of welding.

and to the tune of Bright Eyes
Arc eye, burning like fire.
Arc eye, when I close there's pain.
Will my eye that stings so badly ever see again?
Arc eye.

 

[Togalosh]

..are the gases noxious too?.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/lung-disease/welding.htm

oh.. Jaysus.
Thanks nOlegs.

 

[Keith 66]

This site is full of good info, http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/ , Everything you ever wanted to know about welding & a host more besides.
If starting out above all try & avoid an air cooled stick welder, they are hard to learn on. If you can find a smal Oil cooled oxford or similar stick welder they are far superior. Mig sets are easy to use but the sheilding gas can be expensive.

 

[Pez]

Hi Skeetstar,

I have just joined the forum and it looks like we have the same aim in mind. Have you got any further on with training or purchasing your equipment?

I'm looking at what equipment to buy as soon as my workshop has been painted and cleaned out this week. One thing I wasn't sure on was if I should be looking at extraction, gas/dust masks? I have been looking at videos on YouTube and people just seem to wear a helmet. I will be cutting and staining timber as well as cutting and welding steel.

Thanks

 

[skeetstar]

Well, I have made some progress. I have a source of cheap steel to learn on, and I work oaccasionally at an outdoor sports centre, the centre does a lot of 4x4 so they are always welding up the undersides of land rovers. The mechanic there says he we'll teach me, and I can use their facilities to weld up my first few pieces. If I can get the hang of it, I'll buy my own kit and see how I can get on.