nasty noise

[Eric The Viking]

I suspect we're actually agreeing: are you considering 'dual fan' to be one on the heatsink and one pushing air through a duct from the case down over the heatsink fan? If so I understand what you mean.

I wasn't aware that AMDs run that much hotter. I've only seen that arrangement in HP, Dell and a few others. I'd just assumed it was good housekeeping, as it adds cost.

E.

 

[JakeS]

I suspect we're actually agreeing: are you considering 'dual fan' to be one on the heatsink and one pushing air through a duct from the case down over the heatsink fan?

The ones I've seen have been more both-ends-of-a-tunnel arrangements, like this:

http://digitalsushi.co.za/image/cache/d ... 00x600.jpg

One fan pulls air into the heatsink, the other pulls air out of the heatsink.

(My understanding is that it doesn't really matter whether the air is pulled or pushed, the thing that matters is maximum flow across the maximum surface area; if you only have one fan then pushing air directly onto the blades is going to be most efficient, because fans gather from a wider cone than they distribute to.)



That said, while I don't understand quite how the one in the picture above goes together, I've not personally seen first-hand a CPU cooler for which it has been necessary to remove the heatsink from the CPU to remove the fans; they've always been removable from the outside while leaving the heatsink block attached. And I would give the same caution as Eric - unless you really, really know what you're doing, it's best to never detach the heatsink block. It can have a massive effect on the thermal transfer from CPU to heatsink.




The short answer, of course, is that if you want a quieter PC, never buy an AMD. Every single one I've personally encountered has been notably noisier than an equivalently-capable Intel-based machine. There's a reason they're cheaper.

 

[Lons]

I suspect we're actually agreeing: are you considering 'dual fan' to be one on the heatsink and one pushing air through a duct from the case down over the heatsink fan? If so I understand what you mean.

I wasn't aware that AMDs run that much hotter. I've only seen that arrangement in HP, Dell and a few others. I'd just assumed it was good housekeeping, as it adds cost.

E.

Hi Eric

No, both fans in dual arrangements are very close to or attached to the heatsink. Case fans are completely seperate (my own desktop has 3, controllable as well as PSU / CPU and graphics card fans.

If you google it you'll probably find them, they are there. More expensive than single fans and not usually used except on high end gaming machines or specials that are overclocked. I once fitted a water cooled system which I couldn't get my head aroung (water / electrics!).

AMD CPUs have traditionally always run nearer the top of their operating capacity than Intel and therefore hotter. The AMD spec is (or was) slightly lower but output similar. That's why Intel were much easier to overclock due to the margin of capacity available and why earlier AMDs needed special heatsinks and tended to have a shorter life. Not quite as simple as that but gives the gist.

Except for the last couple of years I've built a lot of pcs for a lot of people but that was when you could make a few £ out of it.
The first ones when memory was tiny and expensive and hdds held little more than the operating system (DOS then win 3.1 :roll: ). My first CD writer was a Sony tray model X2 speed and you were lucky if you got 1 in 3 good disks out of it - That cost a wopping £395 :shock:

I would never suggest that anyone inexperienced should remove either CPU or heatsink but the fan, if single is only held by a maximum of 4 screws and sometimes just clips. If the CPU isn't soldered to the motherboard (rare) I would always remove this with the heatsink and separate on the bench. It isn't difficult but a novice could bend the pins or damage components with static etc.

What you and Jake said about separating heatsink and CPU is right but it really isn't difficult and just commonsense. Static wrist strap, very thin blade, careful cleaning and re-attach using a new pad or heatsink compount and its as safe as houses. I've never had one fail - but I've had a lot of practice.

Anyway, back to the original post. DW from his questions clearly isn't experienced and unless it's a case fan shouldn't do it himself.

A case fan however is so easy that anyone getting in a pro to change it is throwing their money away and I'd suggest that anyone capable of using handtools or machinery is very competant.

The arguments about push or pull for CPU fans will be there still I suspect (all forums have their share of Jacobs - couldn't resist - sorry). It's another subject.

Bob

 

[Eric The Viking]

I take your points , Bob and Jake. I knew about those posh cooling blocks (the one in the picture looks like it uses liquid cooling too), but I was assuming Devonwoody's one wasn't an ultimate overclocked gaming beast!

I also know what you mean about thermal pads. I'm sure they're mainly to ensure self-builds happen without problems, as if you use thermal compound you're better off with as little as you can - going back a few years, they used to fail because people put way too much on and effectively insulated the CPU casing from the heatsink!

My first actual PC was 8086 (not 8088!), and I upgraded it to 1MB of ram by removing and replacing the 14-pin DIL chips by hand (still have the special soldering iron tip somewhere). I also had to drill the board very carefully, to add suppression caps on the power rails for memory reliability. Apricots didn't have the 640k limit . I've also got the BIOS upgrade chips somewhere to let it read PC-DOS formatted disks!

 

[Lons]

My first actual PC was 8086 (not 8088!), and I upgraded it to 1MB of ram by removing and replacing the 14-pin DIL chips by hand (still have the special soldering iron tip somewhere). I also had to drill the board very carefully, to add suppression caps on the power rails for memory reliability. Apricots didn't have the 640k limit . I've also got the BIOS upgrade chips somewhere to let it read PC-DOS formatted disks!

Those were the days Eric :lol:

I think there's a spectrum in my loft somewhere and I remember trying to buy a BBCb and couldn't get one for love nor money so bought a Commodore 64 only to find there was b***er all software and had to write my own. Couldn't do it now - memory's shot :lol:

1mb ram was decent memory on early PCs. I remember doubling mine to 2mb at extortionate cost #-o was plug in by then though so easy enough.

Bob

 

[mseries]

My first actual PC was 8086 (not 8088!), and I upgraded it to 1MB of ram by removing and replacing the 14-pin DIL chips by hand (still have the special soldering iron tip somewhere). I also had to drill the board very carefully, to add suppression caps on the power rails for memory reliability. Apricots didn't have the 640k limit . I've also got the BIOS upgrade chips somewhere to let it read PC-DOS formatted disks!

Those were the days Eric :lol:

I think there's a spectrum in my loft somewhere and I remember trying to buy a BBCb and couldn't get one for love nor money so bought a Commodore 64 only to find there was b***er all software and had to write my own. Couldn't do it now - memory's shot :lol:

1mb ram was decent memory on early PCs. I remember doubling mine to 2mb at extortionate cost #-o was plug in by then though so easy enough.

Bob

I used to play on a 16K ZX81, it's what I started programming with, taught myself BASIC. Still in IT now, 30 years later.

 

[mind_the_goat]

"Yes I am going round in a minute to see the builder"
I think that's your problem, I find it's best to let the builder do the brickwork, but buy your computers from a PC engineer

 

[Chems]

Late to the party, but I often find the numerous PC's I use start making noises like that. I just give it a good whack on the side and it usually dislodges whatever is causing the sound, a bit of cobweb clipping the fan or something vibrating.

DW - if it is the main case fan you'd easily be able to replace that yourself with your practical skills!

 

[devonwoody]

Late to the party, but I often find the numerous PC's I use start making noises like that. I just give it a good whack on the side and it usually dislodges whatever is causing the sound, a bit of cobweb clipping the fan or something vibrating.

DW - if it is the main case fan you'd easily be able to replace that yourself with your practical skills!

Been for a ride the last couple of days.

The pc needs a bit of a kick, so going to let the man do his tricks, takes for ever to boot up and other little niggles so decided to have a clean out all ways.

 

[bugbear]

... so bought a Commodore 64 only to find there was b***er all software and had to write my own.

Are you sure?

"Approximately 10,000 commercial software titles were made for the Commodore 64 including development tools, office productivity applications, and games" (Wikipedia)

Now if you'd bought a Dragon or a Jupiter Ace, you'd have really struggled for software...

BugBear

 

[mind_the_goat]

I still have my Acorn Atom in the garage. Built it myself and upgraded it to the full 12K of memory, 6 of which was for the video. Overclocked it as well so it ran at 2MHz. I'm going to have to get it out soon while we still have a TV and cassette player it might work with.

 

[Lons]

... so bought a Commodore 64 only to find there was b***er all software and had to write my own.

Are you sure?

"Approximately 10,000 commercial software titles were made for the Commodore 64 including development tools, office productivity applications, and games" (Wikipedia)

Now if you'd bought a Dragon or a Jupiter Ace, you'd have really struggled for software...

BugBear

Yes but unfortunately I bought one of the very first ones and programs and games were very thin on the ground.
The kids were young and impatient so I had to write some simple games initially. I remember there was a magazine around very quickly and a few books with game and application programs for people to copy. Pretty basic stuff.

Bob

 

[devonwoody]

That noise as turned out to be a fan bearing on the video card, so the PC has gone to the menders.

Using my old XP computer and I reckon its better than that ~W7 high spec job.