Narex Chisels- Mini review

[TobyB]

My set of mortice chisels are metric, and measuring them at the cutting tip, not half way up the haft, they are accurate or less than a tenth smaller ... so the mortices they cut out measure dead-on (slight side abrasion in use?) ... maybe not so good if you want to work in imperial measures ... but working in metric as I do they are very good.

 

[Jacob]

My set of mortice chisels are metric, and measuring them at the cutting tip, not half way up the haft, they are accurate or less than a tenth smaller ... so the mortices they cut out measure dead-on (slight side abrasion in use?) ... maybe not so good if you want to work in imperial measures ... but working in metric as I do they are very good.

Sounds like yours are under-size too, albeit by less than a tenth (10% is a lot though). Obviously one can work with that but a 10mm chisel should measure 10mm (using an ordinary scale not a vernier caliper) and not noticeably more or less:
1 so that you know how wide it is without having to check.
2 so that it is compatible with any other 10mm bits of kit you may use (do other narex chisels have identical or random widths?)
3 so it will fit, if your design calls for 10mm

 

[Harbo]

What's going on here Jacob, some sort of vindictive tirade against Narex and WH?

From what I have read you have never actually handled one, but somehow are able make damming statements about them?

Strange then, that everybody who has, recommends them?

I know who I would rather believe?

I was always taught to set the gauge to the chisel used - so that level of chisel accuracy that you are complaining about was never an issue.
In fact I can say that I have never checked any of my chisels with a dial gauge - it's not necessary.

Rod

 

[Jacob]

What's going on here Jacob, some sort of vindictive tirade against Narex and WH?

No not at all. It's just that when you get these explosions of enthusiasm it's a good idea to be a bit objective IMHO. I was surprised to read how inaccurate they are as that's one thing you really don't want with a mortice chisel, for all the reasons I gave above. Doesn't matter so much with other chisels.

From what I have read you have never actually handled one, but somehow are able make damming statements about them?

It's from what I've read about them obviously

Strange then, that everybody who has, recommends them?

Yes it is - particularly as so many forumites are usually so picky about this sort of thing, often when it doesn't really matter at all!

.....
I was always taught to set the gauge to the chisel used

You have to if the chisel is not standard size, but it's more productive and useful to have them the right size, for the reasons I gave above. They usually are the right size, no need not to be.

so that level of chisel accuracy that you are complaining about was never an issue.

It is an issue if you can't rely on them being the stated size, for the reasons I gave above. Ditto with many tools I would have thought, if not all.

In fact I can say that I have never checked any of my chisels with a dial gauge - it's not necessary.

Rod

Agree - an accurate scale is good enough for woodwork, but a vernier caliper does come in handy.

 

[clk230]

i can't comment on the actual chisel's as i've not used them , but if they are not sized correctly then thats a matter for trading standards.

 

[Jacob]

Are these chisels accurately made (width) or not? If not, they are no good.

 

[Paul Chapman]

Are these chisels accurately made (width) or not? If not, they are no good.

Still talking rubbish, Jacob. Hardly any chisels are precisely the size marked on them.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[t8hants]

Perhaps we should have a shoot-out, somebody put a vernier on a load of old 'quality' British chisels just for fun! I was going to check my 22mm Erik Anto Berg, but I can't find my vernier! So if yours fail Jacobs standards please throw them in my direction, I'd love a full set of EAB's no matter how off size they are.

G

 

[Jacob]

Are these chisels accurately made (width) or not? If not, they are no good.

Still talking rubbish, Jacob. Hardly any chisels are precisely the size marked on them.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

Still talking rubbish, Paul. Most chisels are precisely the size marked on them. Mortice chisels have to be.
Since when did you lot (the usual suspects) become so slap happy about precision? You are usually obsessive in quite the other direction! All that flattening, lapping, feeler gauges, micrometers, electron microscopes? :lol: :lol:
Our OPs 6mm seems to be out by 20%. Which would you send back, the chisel or the calipers?

 

[condeesteso]

Are these chisels accurately made (width) or not? If not, they are no good.

Personally I don't give a stuff (and I am NOT implying that the Narex are off-size, I didn't even think to check). I like a mortice to fit a tenon... and the proportion relative to overall width must be about right. I would rather the chisel cut well than it measured a specific width, because I don' cut joints in millimeters, I just like them to fit. And if it was a really big sod I would still not care about the width, just the proportion and the fit.

 

[studders]

Could well be the Calipers, those budget digital ones are not 100% accurate.

 

[studders]

Personally I don't give a stuff (and I am NOT implying that the Narex are off-size, I didn't even think to check). I like a mortice to fit a tenon...

'ere 'ere

Who really cares if the Mortise is 9.5 mm or 10mm? So long as they fit that's all that really matters.

 

[jimi43]

Personally I don't give a stuff (and I am NOT implying that the Narex are off-size, I didn't even think to check). I like a mortice to fit a tenon...

'ere 'ere

Who really cares if the Mortise is 9.5 mm or 10mm? So long as they fit that's all that really matters.

I have an old Sorby mortise chisel and it is 0.51235678 inches (approx.)

Another one for the bin! :roll: :roll: :mrgreen:

Jim

 

[Jacob]

Personally I don't give a stuff (and I am NOT implying that the Narex are off-size, I didn't even think to check). I like a mortice to fit a tenon...

'ere 'ere

Who really cares if the Mortise is 9.5 mm or 10mm? So long as they fit that's all that really matters.

Except that very often (but not always) the width of the M&T needs to align with another feature such as a slot, or the flat "land" of a window moulding. If it doesn't it usually can be worked around but may be difficult.

Funny how you are all suddenly being bold and reckless about accuracy, what's happened? Have you all turned on, tuned in, dropped out etc. Are you giving up flattening? It'll be rounded bevels next!

 

[condeesteso]

Jim: eight decimal places... you fussy man. I have a fine Japanese 1/2inch and it's roughly 1/2 inch, but only roughly. Cuts like a 'tart's gob' though.

 

[No skills]

Funny how some on here are happy to say that straight edges or flat surfaces are never 100% straight or flat but are unable to deal with 10mm not always being 10mm.

 

[clk230]

nearly 20% out is not right at all wether its a chisel or any other item offfered for sale ,how can you compare a 6mm narex chisell to a 6mm any other chisel ? you'd have to compare it to a 5mm.
would you all be happy if your butchers or grocers scales were out by nearly 20%

a measure is there so we the public know that there is a consitence.

 

[No skills]

fair point, perhaps the addition of 'approximate size' should be used when advertising items?? is there a defined standard that would cover a product like this? (like the british standard used for squares/squareness?)

 

[Jacob]

....
Yebbut, you set the mortise gauge to the mortise chisel; thus the mortise is automatically the right size, made in a single pass of cuts, and you were going to have to cut the tenon in two separate line anyway, so there's no extra effort. Works for me, but if you have counter examples, I'm happy to listen.

And I'm happy to explain - you have picked up some bad habits!
If you are doing a lot of stuff, say 5 windows with glazing bars, you could have something like 100 or so M&Ts to cut. You set your gauge to 1/2" and mark all your mortices and all your tenons. You can then put the gauge away. You then cut all your mortices with a 1/2" chisel, and all your tenons to the lines you have made. That's all there is to it.
If you have an odd sized chisel and set the gauge accordingly the M&Ts will fit but other details may be out of line. Or if you swap odd sized chisel halfway through you may hit problems. You may need to think about this, but take your time

It also mattered in the past.

If you could add context, explanations or examples to your assertions, the discussion might be more fruitful. I know pantomime season draws nigh, but I'm not going to play "oh yes it is" "oh no it isn't" with you.

BugBear

If you look at the history of maths, science, engineering, technology, and trade, you will find that standardised measurements have been an ideal from very early on, so that when someone asked for say a 1/4lb of tea, or a 1/2" tenon, then someone else would be able to provide one, having to hand as near as possible a standard weight or measure. I'm surprised you didn't know this - it didn't just come in with plywood and industrial production.

So when people order 1/2" chisels that is what they should expect to get. It's not rocket science. Our OP has a 5mm chisel sold as 6mm. He should send it back. The others aren't too accurate either.

 

[studders]

Where's the 20% coming from?
I'm not that good at Maffs but I don't make them 20% smaller/bigger than stated.