Mobile Speed Cameras......Again

[JustBen]

There's a Highway Code?!?

Only for bad drivers. Good drivers make it up as they go along.

I thought the rule was "Drive it like you stole it"...

 

[Finial]

Thinking a bit more about cyclists and harking back to when I used to ride a bike as a kid, seems to me that these days cyclists are not quite as road/pedestrian-friendly as they were then. For example, I seem to remember having a wing mirror to check before I pulled out to go past parked cars. These days I have yet to see a cyclist even bother to look over their shoulder.

Shoulder checks are important, but it would be nice if drivers automatically gave space for riders to pull out. What else do they expect to happen when a bike comes up to a parked car? I'm sure you do Roger, as you have ridden a bike yourself, but in my experience few drivers do.

Terry

 

[RogerS]

Thinking a bit more about cyclists and harking back to when I used to ride a bike as a kid, seems to me that these days cyclists are not quite as road/pedestrian-friendly as they were then. For example, I seem to remember having a wing mirror to check before I pulled out to go past parked cars. These days I have yet to see a cyclist even bother to look over their shoulder.

Shoulder checks are important, but it would be nice if drivers automatically gave space for riders to pull out. What else do they expect to happen when a bike comes up to a parked car? I'm sure you do Roger, as you have ridden a bike yourself, but in my experience few drivers do.

Terry

But equally cyclists could also take more ownership of what is happening around them by fitting a wing mirror. Why not? It's all about driving/riding defensively. If looking over the shoulder on a bike makes it wobble, then the wing mirror makes a lot of sense IMO.

 

[Jacob]

.......

But equally cyclists could also take more ownership of what is happening around them by fitting a wing mirror. Why not? .....

Because they don't work on a bike. The handlebars are in constant movement, the frame weaves from side to side, the riders head moves relative to both. They've been tried helmet mounted but still not much good.
NB bikes have to weave from side to side - this is how they stay up. This also is the reason why cyclist have to "take more ownership of what is happening around them" by riding well out from the kerb, even further out from parked cars (to avoid opening doors) or in the centre of narrow traffic lanes ( to deter drivers from trying to squeeze past too close and push you into the other lane - lethal if you get too close to the side of an HGV, or wobble into the path of something going too fast).

 

[mseries]

But equally cyclists could also take more ownership of what is happening around them by fitting a wing mirror. Why not? It's all about driving/riding defensively. If looking over the shoulder on a bike makes it wobble, then the wing mirror makes a lot of sense IMO.

Looking over the shoulder is much more effective, you can see more. The act of looking indicates to other road users that you are about to do something, at least it should. Bikes don't have wings, any other sort or mirror is pretty much useless anyway. Nowt wrong with bikes wobbling, if it worries drivers, stay well clear by slowing down and passing by leaving as much space as you would when passing a car.

 

[RogerS]

But equally cyclists could also take more ownership of what is happening around them by fitting a wing mirror. Why not? It's all about driving/riding defensively. If looking over the shoulder on a bike makes it wobble, then the wing mirror makes a lot of sense IMO.

Looking over the shoulder is much more effective, you can see more. The act of looking indicates to other road users that you are about to do something, at least it should. Bikes don't have wings, any other sort or mirror is pretty much useless anyway. Nowt wrong with bikes wobbling, if it worries drivers, stay well clear by slowing down and passing by leaving as much space as you would when passing a car.

I suggested the mirror because someone had posted that a cyclist would wobble. Cycles don't need wings. Handlebar will do !

 

[Finial]

cyclists could also take more ownership of what is happening around them by fitting a wing mirror. Why not? It's all about driving/riding defensively.

I approach a parked car and need to move out to pass. I can hear a car behind me. I can see it if I look over my shoulder. Perhaps I could use a mirror. I may wobble anyway - that's what bikes do. The driver knows I am there and about to pass the parked car. The driver should not overtake at that point.

So what often happens next?

these days cyclists are not quite as road/pedestrian-friendly as they were

Perhaps. Incompetent, ignorant and aggressive drivers are a serious problem in this country.

 

[MMUK]

NB bikes have to weave from side to side - this is how they stay up.

Sorry Jacob but that is complete rollocks :!:

 

[cambournepete]

I've got mirrors on both sides of my recumbent trike

 

[Jacob]

NB bikes have to weave from side to side - this is how they stay up.

Sorry Jacob but that is complete rollocks :!:

OK then how does a bike stay up? Surprising how many people don't know this!

 

[John Brown]

NB bikes have to weave from side to side - this is how they stay up.

Sorry Jacob but that is complete rollocks :!:

OK then how does a bike stay up? Surprising how many people don't know this!

While this statement is, of course, absolutely true, a proficient cyclist can generally keep the "weaving" down to an almost imperceptible level.

 

[mseries]

NB bikes have to weave from side to side - this is how they stay up.

Sorry Jacob but that is complete rollocks :!:

Not complete bollocks, it's the micro adjustment of the riders balance as the CoG moves away from the stable base that makes a bike stay up, the forces from the motion and rotating wheels interact too. Speed plays a part. In theory at least a bike should stay up with no wobbles and at higher speeds they do but on roads with riders who are preoccupied with things other than riding in a dead straight line (or constant radius), other factors cause wobbles, things such as bumps in the road, steering round debris, riders movements, wind, imperfect tracking of the wheels, imperfect balance due perhaps to luggage so the rider counteracts it. More experienced riders can do it well and do it smoothly but many over compensate and make their machine wobble more.

Cycles will wobble on roads, nearly all riders learn to cope with that but do need space on the roads to do so in safetly and it's the space that often is not under their control. This is why you'll see riders using the primary position.

 

[RogerS]

....

Perhaps. Incompetent, ignorant and aggressive cyclists are a serious problem in this country.

From the Times...

Cyclists are almost as likely as drivers to cause serious injury to pedestrians, analysis of official figures shows.

There are bad cyclists just as much as there are bad motorists.

 

[Jacob]

....


Sorry Jacob but that is complete rollocks :!:

OK then how does a bike stay up? Surprising how many people don't know this!

While this statement is, of course, absolutely true, a proficient cyclist can generally keep the "weaving" down to an almost imperceptible level.

If you have the chance to look at a cyclists actual track on the ground (wet/dry roads, muddy tracks etc) you will see that all cyclists weave very perceptibly. Faster they go the longer the swing from side to side.
Cycling (and motor biking, skiing or skating) is series of controlled falls from one side to the other. It's controlled by turning into the fall which throws you the other way by centripetal force. So if you are so close to the kerb that you can't turn towards it you will fall off. Except of course were the weaving path at it's outermost point just reaches the kerb .
If you tried to ride a bike with the steering locked it's virtually impossible and is more like tight rope walking where you balance with the aid of a long pole or your arms stretched out.

 

[mseries]

From the Times...

Cyclists are almost as likely as drivers to cause serious injury to pedestrians, analysis of official figures shows.

There are bad cyclists just as much as there are bad motorists.

that's per billion kms travelled though. You do say almost which means that motor vehicles cause serious injury to more pedestrians than cyclists do.

In real terms though because motor vehicles travel so much further than cycles, motor vehicles cause serious injury to far more pedestrians than cyclists do. I'll go a step further and state that motor vehicles (their drivers) cause serious injury to many more road users, of all categories, than cyclists do. It's not the bad cyclists that are the real danger.

 

[John Brown]

I wasn't basically disagreeing with you Jacob. I happen to think that there is a difference between casually observing a cyclist in action and studying their tyre tracks. If the weaving was very perceptible then maybe most people WOULD understand the mechanisms at work.

John (who used to ski and ride a unicycle[although not at the same time], and thus knows a thing or two about staying upright).

 

[Spindle]

Cycling (and motor biking, skiing or skating) is series of controlled falls from one side to the other. It's controlled by turning into the fall which throws you the other way by centripetal force.

And there was me thinking it was gyroscopic action / precession :roll:

 

[mseries]

found this on the BBC http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-13040607

Pedestrian casualties 2001-09

Killed by cycles: 18
Seriously injured by cycles: 434
Killed by cars: 3,495
Seriously injured by cars: 46,245

Figures apply to Great Britain. Source: Department for Transport

 

[RogerS]

found this on the BBC http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-13040607

Pedestrian casualties 2001-09

Killed by cycles: 18
Seriously injured by cycles: 434
Killed by cars: 3,495
Seriously injured by cars: 46,245

Figures apply to Great Britain. Source: Department for Transport

Those figures aree meaningless. What you are ignoring is that the central premise of the Times article/research was that cyclists travel less miles in total than motorists. If you then look at the number of accidents caused by cyclists compared to motorists per miles travelled then proportionately cyclists cause just as much injury.

All I am really after is an agreement that just as there are bad inconsiderate motorists, so to are there bad and inconsiderate cyclists.

 

[Racers]

If you have the chance to look at a cyclists actual track on the ground (wet/dry roads, muddy tracks etc) you will see that all cyclists weave very perceptibly. Faster they go the longer the swing from side to side.
Cycling (and motor biking, skiing or skating) is series of controlled falls from one side to the other. It's controlled by turning into the fall which throws you the other way by centripetal force. So if you are so close to the kerb that you can't turn towards it you will fall off. Except of course were the weaving path at it's outermost point just reaches the kerb .
If you tried to ride a bike with the steering locked it's virtually impossible and is more like tight rope walking where you balance with the aid of a long pole or your arms stretched out.

Jacob

If you want to turn right on your bike which way do you turn the bars?

See if you can work it out.

Pete