Magazines

[OPJ]

Hi Nick,
Having been a mechanical engineer all my working life, I would say that I could expect to purchase a "cheapo" machine and after"fettling" it I could expect to get a very good performance out of it, however, if I were to purchase a brand new car(some hope) I would not expect to have to fettle it.
I suppose it's horses for courses really. the more you spend you expect a better performance, this is not always the case, and a lot more can be achieved with a cheaper model and a bit of fettling.

Regards.

Rich.

I agree with your points, Rich. I think you'd have to spend several thousands of pounds on a large industrial machine before you have something will run beautifully from the moment it hits your workshop floor. Trouble, I reckon I lot of people don't see the bigger picture - if I was to buy a £1,000 planer thicknesser or bandsaw, I'd still expect to have to give it some time and attention to fettle it every now and again. I think the "Industrial" ratings in the catalogues have more in common with the motor quality than overall build of the machine. Walk in to a larger joinery/furniture workshop and any new machines would probably be Martin, SCM, Felder - not Axminster or Jet. That's what I'd call "industrial".

 

[Anonymous]

Nick - apologies for the length of this post

I have met you a couple of times and enjoyed our conversations. I have the utmost respect for your skills and the HUGE efforts in bring around GBW magazine. I should point out that I also admire Richard Kell's work immensely.



However, I have browsed all, but purchased only 3 of the GBW issues. From the outset I was very concerned by the tool reviews that demonstrated a strong bias in my opinion.

How can I say this?

How can I back this up?

Well, the current issue is a prime example. The review of honing guides is an absolute joke and I can only assume it was written as a parody of good, independent journalism!

The basis of any argument is critical thought. Critical thinking leads to writing that produces arguments supported by the preceding 'supporting statements'. This is well known and well documented.

So, let's look at the supporting statements made in the honing jig article (these points are made in the body of the article):

Kell
* British made
* Holds blades square (however, you neglect to say that they are held to one side of the jig and, and with most chisels they will be held near the edge of the stone, this is a VERY bad idea)
* Need to make a set of runners for the wheels to roll on
* The set of runners needs to be 1/2" above the stone, yet still perfectly aligned to the stone - even as the stone wears!!!
* The tool's wheels are not in contact with the stone - i.e. no datum or reference to the stone's surface
* Have to make your own wedge to hold the iron (no doubt, one makes several wedges for chisels, varying blade thicknesses etc. )
* No wobble or movement ensuring perfectly straight cutting edges
* Sold as part of the scary sharp system

Veritas
* flexible and holds most tools without making any additional jigs (like a 'self loading rifle' - yes, we've all used those :roll: )
* The roller is referenced to the actual stone (this increases accuracy unless using scary sharp where it is referenced to the substrate)
* Lots of adjustments including ability to easily set for a back bevel
* Holds the tool square against a reference (like Kell) - however, you do not mention that the Veritas allows the blade to be held square at any point across the jig, so chisels may be central to the stone or anywhere else across it
* Can be used for all manner of edge tools (even mortise chisels in my experience)
* Has a set of stops that make setting angles very easy
* Has 3 settings on the roller to allow small adjustments for the micro bevel without re-setting the blade in the jig.
* One can produce curved blades on the Veritas (not mentioned, but a crutial ability if one follows DC or Scharz's advice on sharpening)
* One does not have to make wedges etc. to use it (not pointed out, but an advantage over the Kell)

There is more, but the supporting statements in the article CLEARLY point out that the Veritas is a superior device on a waterstone-based sharpening system.
The Kell is beautiful and clearly well made, but flawed in many areas - except for scary sharp where the abrasive is thin.

But that's not the point is it? You interview Richard Kell, and his jig is 'British'.

So, you chose the Kell despite the facts :roll:

I think this edition of the magazine was the best by far with some very good articles, but it was spoiled by the appalling bad 'review' (personally, I would find the word review inapropraite for this) of sharpening jigs.

Kill the bias, write independent reviews where the supporting statements DO support the conclusion (or argument) and you will be producing a magazine worth subscribing to, rather than one that is mostly left on the shelf.

My own bias? None really, I own a Veritas and it does all I could want but I use a version of the scary sharp system these days and, for a long time, have been tempted to buy a Kell for straight-sharpened blades (jointer, shooting board, skew, spokeshaves) for use on that. I am off ot look at Richard's web page now :wink: :lol:

 

[johnnyb]

i certainly was not suggesting that backhanders take place over tool reviews. just that negative reviewing is never welcome. i once purchased a record maxi 26, after several reviews in the mags and of course records glossy lit. i remember going to buy it and the chap in the shop saying "its a pile of crap dont buy it, buy the sheppach saw instead" needless to say it was a pile of c..p!! record shut down there forum after many people complained about this machine. the guy in the shop selling it to me warned me not to buy it and he was supposed to be selling it to me! what you say to me at a show etc and what you print are not the same.
since then i stopped reading all reviews except from ones on this forum and in fww or the american mags. you cant serve two masters in tool reviews.

 

[Nick Gibbs]

Hi Tony

You make some very fair comments about the honing guides piece. In trying to do something different it doesn't always work perfectly. I was trying to give a considered idea of what sort of person might want to use any of the honing guides, and if the Eclipse holds up for everyone. They are all so different that it is almost impossible to compare one directly against another. What I was hoping to do was to get people thinking about the various options, and how one might progress from one product to the next, or instead choose to learn how to do it by hand.

I think it's unfair to say that I came down utterly in favour of the Kell jig. I do think his jigs are mainly aimed at more discerning woodworkers, and you're right there is a problem that they don't run on the surface of the stone (though that is also a benefit). I tried to make it plain what sort of woodworker might favour which of the guides, rather than just saying which was best. Maybe I wasn't clear enough, and yes interviewing Richard Kell in the same issue might be seen as compromising the test. I understand that.

And, actually, it being British is an issue. I think we should be encouraging British toolmaking, not at the cost of something better from somewhere else, but to help our local economy and ensure we don't lose vital skills.

I think it's unfair to say I didn't use any critical analysis. I thought I did. Calling the article 'an absolute joke' is the sort of language that does no one the forum any favours. I'm sure there are some people who will find it interesting and informative. Did you see our test of inverted routers?

Thanks for your support otherwise.

Cheers

Nick

 

[p111dom]

You obviously didn't see my article in the same issue! :roll:

Yes I did and it's very good. I especially liked your method of holding the small brackets while cutting them on tthe bandsaw. These are the type of tips intermediate woodworkers want to see. However on the next page there's the base of a four legged criss cross table. How did he cut that? "shaped on the spindle moulder and .......then the joint is cut using the router". That wasn't much help.

On another point about general reviews and content there's still alot more that could and IMO should be done and stated. For a specific review what about the company or manufacturer. Are they easy to deal with? Are they there in a timely fashion when things go wrong? For example I have alot of Ryobi stuff and it's very good value for money but the after sales service is terrible. Had I known, that would put me off. Wood suppliers and locations. Contact numbers. General suppliers where to get things etc. All sadly lacking in most of the mags. The internet is so big these days that these sort of places can be difficult to find. Why arn't the mags taking advantage of this?

 

[alan wood]

I must say this is a most interesting thread and as a contributor to the magazine I would like to cover a few points.

I really don’t believe that British Woodworking magazine is bias towards British products and at no time has Nick me to promote them.

Having read through all of my writings to date here are the products that I use.
A Japanese marking knife
A German engineers try-square (although I didn’t highlight that fact)
Japanese water stones.
Stanley honing guide
An old steel rule
Cramps from Aldi
The Stanley marking knives
Hamilton paint scraper blades
Blue Spruce Tool works chisels
Zone razor saw.

As a person new to writing for a magazine I would add that Nick is an excellent person to work with, inspirational, and critical is a very positive and mentoring manner.

cheers

Alan

 

[stef]

I've had a sub to Taunton's Fine Woodworking for a while but am thinking of cancelling as it seems to be less and less interesting "Tune up your tablesaw - Again!"
What's good in UK mags? I live in France so visiting a UK newsagent is un peu difficile

Tim

The "bouvet" is not a bad read, fairly technical though.
and you'll find it at your local carefour !

 

[bjm]

Nick

I read your review of the TS200C, after I'd bought mine, and I don't think you were critical enough. To say it requires a little fettling is an understatement. There is nothing wrong with the saw mechanism but as a tool it has been crippled by the poor design of the rest of it.

I agree that there will always be benefits gained from a little fettling with any tool, especially when price is a factor, but this particular saw is in a league of it's own. I don't see that as a benefit to anyone.


Brian

 

[MikeG.]

I am interested in this conversation even though I don't read any of the magazines at all.

What particularly interests me is the pre-occupation with tool reviews as a basis for deciding which magazine to buy. Are people really saying that they buy tools so often that a monthly tool review is the most important thing in a magazine? If so, I am staggered.

One of the reasons I don't buy magazines is that the only thing I would look for in a magazine would be inspiration for my projects. If the magazines were full of fantastic woodworking every month, stuff that I like but couldn't yet achieve myself, I would have been a customer for years. The ones I have flicked through in dentist's waiting rooms seem to be very long on instructions in basics (cutting a tenon, for goodness sake!!) and full of tool reviews, but very short of inpsirational woodwork. (Remember, I have only seen a very, very small sample of the output over the last quarter century. I could be very wrong.)

Inspire me, don't instruct me!!

If I need a new tool (and I don't buy many at all) I would go and have a look at the alternatives in a shop........or if I bought the magazines I would probably look through the advertisements before going to the shops.

I'm now wondering if the inspiration I seek for new projects equates in some way to the inspiration that some people seek for new tools. Could it be that most readers of the magazines are more interested in the contents of the workshop than in the products that come out of the workshop?

Surely not.

Mike

 

[stef]

I agree 100%.
i flick through the mags from time to time, but it's been at least 6 months since i found anything of interests and bought one.
the bouvet is good for learning about furniture making. it's comprehensive, and very educational, but it fails to inspire me most of the time.

 

[Nick Gibbs]

Nice one, Mike. It's important for magazines to talk about products, because that's where the change and the news is, and it's important to help readers with their purchases. Products are what drive most magazines, not necessarily because of the advertising, but because ultimately it is the 'News' for most hobbies, and it's what many readers want to know about.

However I agree that an obsession with buying advice is self-defeating. What do you do once the workshop is full??? I think it's more important to use tests to put tools in context, and help readers get more out of what they own already, and understand how it all works.

And yes, I think it's all about inspiration. It's all about getting people to try things they might otherwise not consider, and it's about getting people to read things they might otherwise ignore.

Your free trial issue will be in the post tomorrow, Mike.

Cheers

Nick

 

[wizer]

Come on Mike, you have been around here long enough to realise the consumers of these magazine, and indeed this forum, are complete tool junkies. You see it all over the net. It seems to be all about the tools and the workshops. I'm not disagreeing with your point of view. But that just seems to be a fact. I get more excited about a workshop thread or one of waka's plane threads than 50% of the project threads. That's because everyone's taste in furniture is different and so we can't be inspired by every project that is churned out. I recently got that free book from F&C about chairs and tables, an area of woodworking that particularly interests me, but not one of the featured projects interested me, let alone inspired me. That said, none of them where rubbish from a craftsmanship angle, I respect the maker's skill and talent. I have a large folder on my server which is filled with inspirational furniture pics, but I don't add to it every day, maybe one a month. It should be all about the making, but it's not.

With regard to magazine tool reviews, I always take them with a pinch of salt. I seek out users on internet forums that own the particular tool to get a real world review. I guess I use a magazine review to get a 'first look'.

I hardly ever read an article about making tenons or dovetails, even tho I'm not skilled in this area. Should there come a time when I want to tackle a joint, I know I can read up about it in either a book or on the internet. I don't want to read about it on a monthly basis. It's not just magazines. FWW Online have got a new video about dovetails and The Wood Whisperer has covered all the regular joints once ore twice. How much repetition have we seen with the New Yankee Workshop?

On the subject of Repetition.... How many times have we had this conversation??

One thing I can not stand in woodworking magazines is the real basic DIY type stuff. Even when I was a complete beginner (i.e right now ), I never wanted to see how to chuck together 2x4's to make some god awful coffee table that wouldn't be seen dead in a jumble sale!! (you know who you are GWW).

*vent over*



:lol:

 

[OPJ]

With magazines, the tools and machines will generally get used once or twice for the test/review and that's often the last we'll read about them. On the forums however, you have the opportunity to obtain experience and opinions from people who've been using these same items for months, often longer. I've found that with some machines, they can appear to offer great value initially but, it isn't until you're further down the line that you begin to realise how poorly designed they can be in some areas (thinking back to the drive belt problems on my former planer thicknesser, the Perform CCNPT).

Nick does appear to be trying to stick with several items though - Record table saw, Fox router table, Tormek grinder and, is that a Charnwood spindle moulder I noticed somewhere? :wink:

That's where these forums have an advantage over the magazines.

 

[MikeG.]

On the subject of Repetition.... How many times have we had this conversation??
:lol:

What, you and me? Once at Dave's Sudbury bash......

or do you mean "we" as in the forum.........?

Pass!!

Mike

 

[wizer]

We as in the forum mate. It comes up once or twice a year. Just like the Dado debate and various other hot topics.

 

[wizer]

I wonder if the lucky BWW workshop winner will give us some long term reviews on his new toy, er tools.

 

[kenf]

I have just read through the whole of this thread. How refreshing to to read reasonable magazine reviews/criticism answered directly by the magazine proprietor/owner!

Where are all the other magazine editors? Do they show enough interest in the subject of their magazines to read, let alone join a Forum, or are they just publishing houses in it just for the money. Money is a good reason, but not the only one.

I have tried various magazines as I have come across them in the shops, but now find they have to be hunted down, as most local stores don't stock minority interest magazines (either that or they get a few in and they go within days). I don't want to make special journeys into the city to buy a magazine.

Regarding the reviews, I only read them to confirm that I have previously researched and bought the right equipment/machine for me at the right price. The reviews must be written like horoscopes, as they mostly seem to confirm my choices. Occasionally they point out bad points that I just don't find with the one I have bought. I usually research everywhere before buying large price tag items and find any purchase is a compromise between quality, ease of use and price.

Articles I look for in a magazine are individual's workshops and ways of working, mess and all, personal experience stories relating to woodwork, technical information, (what joints to use where;different ways of 'skinning a cat', whale tail or wrap around joints); unusual projects such as making a pole lathe, cider press, secret compartment mechanisms. Perhaps my needs are better satisfied by spending a few months magazine price on a specialist book, if it exists.

A magazine cannot be all things to all people, as Churchill said " you can please some of the people all of the time............."

I will take Nick up on his offer of a sample magazine to see if his refreshed approach works for me.

 

[p111dom]

A magazine cannot be all things to all people, as Churchill said " you can please some of the people all of the time............."

Though that was Abraham Lincoln :?

 

[kenf]

You are probably right, but it sounds so much better with a Churchill voice. I expect he said it to someone somewhere at sometime.

 

[p111dom]

You are probably right, but it sounds so much better with a Churchill voice. I expect he said it to someone somewhere at sometime.

Personally my favourite quote from Churchill was while in the house of commons a lady said about him "My lord I must protest, the honourable member is drunk" to which he replied " My lord I may be drunk but the honourable lady is ugly however I shall be sober in the morning." :lol: