Lunchbox thicknessers with induction motors?

[MarkDennehy]

I suggest watching someone work with a flat bench, and not taking the advice of folks who use a planer/ thicknesser to do the work for them.
This will omit over 90 percent of Youtubers!.

Mostly for me it's guys like Richard Maguire and Paul Sellers (both of whose stuff I buy), with occasional relaxation with the woodwright's shop, and some nice specialised stuff from the likes of Peter Follansbee, Matthew Bickford and Steve Latta (I'll second-guess and moan all day about spending money on tools, but dropping money on education like it was going out of fashion is a pretty strong family tradition and instructional videos count as education).

You work with nice expensive timbers, so there's no reason to be chipping it up.

Hey, if I could resaw it I would, but I don't have a large enough bandsaw or room for a full throw of my bow saw (and forget a roubo frame saw, it'd be longer than my bench). So right now, it's getting chipped up by hand one swipe at a time anyway...

And lastly if you did want a thicknesser, you would use it after you have jointed one edge accurately

Oh, flattening isn't a problem, I do that all the time, it's fine. It's kindof fun, in a somewhat odd sort of way, but hey, it's harmless fun.
Thicknessing on the other hand...

 

[Ttrees]

Oh, flattening isn't a problem, I do that all the time, it's fine. It's kindof fun, in a somewhat odd sort of way, but hey, it's harmless fun.
Thicknessing on the other hand...

No doubt in my mind who you follow by the choice of your bench.
I was wondering why you had a load of squiggles on your timber though.
as thicknessing for me is identical to surfacing.
I strongly suggest watching Rob Cosman prep flatten a board for free on YT ,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5x65dj03C8

as Mr Latta to my knowledge has not made any kind of instructional videos in regards to surfacing and thicknessing, and that's the precision I'm after, as it is more foolproof in my mind.

I would be sceptical on learning planing techniques from folks who make simple projects
and concentrate on folks who plane timber for more precise components.

I use my bench for reference and know I can trust it, so I implement techniques like
Rob shows i.e easily finding high spots and such.
He is good at explaining stuff, if you skip through the sharpening stuff etc.
Pick what you want to get out of it though, as he has some things plenty wont agree with,
(I wont get into that) as the case with most woodworkers.

Tom

 

[MarkDennehy]

No doubt in my mind who you follow by the choice of your bench.

I was wondering why you had a load of squiggles on your timber though.

The chalk's just there so I can see what I'm removing as I go. Most people wouldn't need it I think...

I strongly suggest watching Rob Cosman prep flatten a board for free on YT ,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5x65dj03C8

Seen that one before; I find Maguire's way of doing it is a bit easier to follow, but I guess the end result is the same!

as Mr Latta to my knowledge has not made any kind of instructional videos in regards to surfacing and thicknessing, and that's the precision I'm after, as it is more foolproof in my mind.

No, Latta's stuff was on inlay (string and berry stuff to be exact). And Bickford was for moulding planes and Follansbee more for the oak carving though his green woodworking stuff looks like a shedload of fun. Well. A rather large field full of fun - which is why I can't try it yet

Pick what you want to get out of it though, as he has some things plenty wont agree with,
(I wont get into that) as the case with most woodworkers.

I find most stuff (woodworking and otherwise) is like that. Take the stuff that works, leave the stuff that doesn't, and if your stuff still doesn't work, reassess what stuff works and what stuff doesn't. Rinse and repeat...

 

[custard]

Custard,
I gotta ask what sort of bench you had at the time, and if you were working at wider or longer panels at that stage?...

I made a solid bench that was about five feet long. I made quite a lot of windsor chairs and a good range of medium sized hardwood furniture. I only tackled a few larger projects, a couple of double beds, large bookcase, a dining table, that sort of thing. I think it's important to scale your projects to your resources. For a hobbyist working in a small workshop, without top quality machines, and with only limited time to spare, then taking on an over ambitious project is the quickest way there is to becoming an ex-woodworker!

 

[custard]

Or do I just have to lump it and use a scrub plane until I can move to a larger shed?

I don't want to open a pointless debate about the best plane for timber prepping. Basically if something works for you then that's all you need to know. However, I would point out that I hardly ever come across a professional cabinet maker who actually uses a scrub plane.

I trained at a workshop that didn't get electricity until the 1960's, and was privileged to meet some of the old cabinet makers who served their time making high end hardwood furniture entirely with hand tools. Interestingly they said that even though there were a few scrub planes kicking around the workshop they were rarely used. By far the most commonly used tool for initial timber preparation was a wooden jack with a fairly aggressive camber.

By a process of elimination that's what I also use, in fact I've used the exact same tool for well over twenty years now, and I still use it regularly as I often have to process large slabs of waney edged timber for dining tables or desks, and these monster slabs are too big to fit through my machines.

 

[Ttrees]

I don't think I have seen Richard's video on some of the methods used by Cosman in the video referenced...
I might never see it if its not for free.
The rest of folks you mention don't do/haven't done videos concerning surfacing or jointing as far as I know..... maybe surfacing with a hatchet
In the Cosman video I was referring to the rocking, and rubbing of the piece.
It would be easier and make a more of a condensed video, if the piece were smaller, like what is a more common sized furniture component.
I can't remember how much of the tips are in the video,
but getting back to the bench for reference, for surfacing and the techniques used, I employ rocking/tapping, pivoting which what you have learned the hard way, the rubbed technique which is fool proof, especially if you take it a step further which is how
I learned to do with wide boards, with covering a section of bench in crayon to find a high spot.
that's a lot quicker than scribbling on the wood.
This taught me to stop pushing down on the plane, as it wants to cut only the high spots.

But the most important is just looking at where the board is resting (not clamped up/squeezed in dogs)but resting on the flat bench, and sighting the gaps (not in contact) where there are low spots in the timber.
Plane off the high spots until that low spot now is in contact with the bench.
An angle poise style light is a good thing to have around whilst doing this.

And onto the virtues of thicknessing with a flat bench
I can lay a square on the bench and look for 90 deg, with the help of a sturdy stainless steel
analogue calipers (without a dial of any kind) to check for thickness
and combining the square and the calipers, can be more accurate again easier, if the timber is resting on bearers as it exaggerates visually the inaccuracy, to the effects what a taller board would have,
making it easier to get a flat, parallel and square.
That's why I think its essential to have a flat bench, if you do not wish to have a thicknesser.

Interested to see how Custard managed if he was working on bigger components at the time none the less, but for me I dont need one, as I am never working on sawn timber.
Tom

 

[MarkDennehy]

By far the most commonly used tool for initial timber preparation was a wooden jack with a fairly aggressive camber.

Very close to what I call a scrub plane - I'm not thinking of the new veritas one or the old stanley 40 1/2 (or the new Lee Nielsen clone), I'm thinking of a #04 with an aggressive camber on the iron. I didn't even have to file the mouth on this new one (I did on the old one, but I used a 9" diameter camber on that because I was still figuring out which end of the plane you push on at the time).

 

[Ttrees]

Custard,
I gotta ask what sort of bench you had at the time, and if you were working at wider or longer panels at that stage?...

I made a solid bench that was about five feet long. I made quite a lot of windsor chairs and a good range of medium sized hardwood furniture. I only tackled a few larger projects, a couple of double beds, large bookcase, a dining table, that sort of thing. I think it's important to scale your projects to your resources. For a hobbyist working in a small workshop, without top quality machines, and with only limited time to spare, then taking on an over ambitious project is the quickest way there is to becoming an ex-woodworker!

Nice table Custard
A large bookcase and a dining table isn't the easiest thing to make on a five footer bench I'd say.
But au contraire a bench isn't the least ambitious thing for the newbie either,
I believe I got a head start by having a real flat surface to begin with, like what a fire door
can do, hence why I'm always raving on about them
Tom

 

[MarkDennehy]

I worked with a lunchbox/benchtop thicknesser for several years, I was working in a wooden garden shed in central London, so noise was a real factor. But taken overall it really wasn't that much of a problem.

...

The total thicknessing time for this project would be about one hour, not too intrusive for your neighbours if you pick a Saturday afternoon or early one evening.

Well, let's hope so because thanks to Mrs C's moving up to a better model...

I now need to rearrange a bunch of stuff to find its final home, it's a wee bit larger than I thought...

And I even went silly and bought it a toy...

Not sure what I was thinking of there, but hey, you only live once I suppose.

110dB inside the shed when it's running though, and 77dB outside it and "too loud" by the time it reaches the better half in the house. So more soundproofing added to the only bit left to stick soundproofing to...

And I guess now we test the neighbours' patience about noise on a weekend afternoon...

 

[MarkDennehy]

So I just got to try it out for the first time "in anger", so to speak, just thicknessing the walnut board I was bleeding over to get it down to rough thickness. So I didn't care too much about snipe or about being hugely accurate or about tearout because I'll be finishing the job by hand (why is my wife laughing?) and so I just fed the walnut into the front and watched it come out the back without caring too much.


I now hate you all for having enjoyed these machines for so long. That thing did in five minutes what would have taken me a lot longer and with a lot more sweat. And, granted, I now have three cubic feet more machine in my shed than I have room for, and six cubic feet more shavings, but still. Holy carp. I feel like a 17th century woodworker who just got an apprentice Thanks MrsC, this was worth every penny!

 

[sunnybob]

dont forget anything over 85 Db is PERMANENTLY harmful to your hearing. Always wear ear defenders.

 

[MarkDennehy]

Yup, used to that from the rifle range bob, have a pair of peltor's I rely on.

 

[sunnybob]

My peltors are so old they qualify as antiques (lol)

What I did do though was when one pair broke up, I doubled up the old foam into the newer ones. Now THATS what I call quiet!

 

[custard]

I now hate you all for having enjoyed these machines for so long.

It's a revelation isn't it! And so fast that an hour of machining is all you need for an awful lot of time at the bench, so yes it's noisy, but it's not like it'll be running all the time. Most shared furniture making workshops will only have one planer for seven or eight craftsmen, and even then they're not run anything like full time.

I believe the average lawn mower is around 85-90 Db, so an hour per week or fortnight of you thicknessing is hardly too serious imposition on the neighbours.

 

[OscarG]

110dB inside the shed when it's running though

110? Holy moly!

I've been a bit obsessed with noise levels lately, taking measurements when I'm out and about, on the London Underground in between stations when the train is screeching, it can briefly touch 110 and that is not only really unpleasant but actually painful.

Glad you got your ear defenders!

I'm hoping to get that same dewalt machine, didn't realise it was that loud! Noise aside you're happy with it though? Would you recommend it?

 

[MarkDennehy]

Yeah, 110dB is pretty unpleasant - that's when it's chewing its way through some wood, mind, it's normally 10dB less - but the peltors are normally used for rifle ranges where 170dB impulses are pretty normal (though we do tend to wear plugs *and* defenders for that stuff), so it's well within their safe operating limits.

I've never used a thicknesser before (other than the one powered by my arms) so I'm not sure I should recommend anything, but I certainly haven't found anything about this one that gave me pause yet - it's very, very solid; it doesn't have any obvious corner-cutting stuff going on; and in my extensive twenty minutes of using it, it's performed perfectly

 

[sunnybob]

The dewalt is the loudest in most tests. The makita is the quietist.
The makita also claims to produce the least amount of snipe. but the price reflects that. I settled for the jet.
the noise is almost the same on all of them when the wood is going through though.
Snipe is more of a problem if you are only running shorter planks through it.

 

[custard]

Would you recommend it?

The dilemma everyone faces Oscar is that for roughly the same money you can either get a good quality lunchbox/bench top thicknesser, or you can get a really low grade planer/thicknesser.

If you go the bench top thicknesser route you face the twin problems of planing one face reasonably flat by hand then edge jointing by hand.

Consequently many hobbyists decide on the poor quality planer/thicknesser. It's their money so their choice, but personally I think that's a mistake. These cheap as chips planer/thicknessers generally have cheap ali extrusions for fences which are often twisted and won't hold a setting, the tables are pretty rubbish too, a long way from flat and difficult if not impossible to set correctly. Add in lower quality motors, poor knife blocks and a poor knife changing process, rubbish dust extraction, thicknesser tables that won't hold flat during rise and fall, etc etc.

But, they look okay and promise a lot (without actually delivering much), so I guess they'll continue to sell in their thousands.

 

[OscarG]

Would you recommend it?

The dilemma everyone faces Oscar is that for roughly the same money you can either get a good quality lunchbox/bench top thicknesser, or you can get a really low grade planer/thicknesser.

If you go the bench top thicknesser route you face the twin problems of planing one face reasonably flat by hand then edge jointing by hand.

Consequently many hobbyists decide on the poor quality planer/thicknesser. It's their money so their choice, but personally I think that's a mistake. These cheap as chips planer/thicknessers generally have cheap ali extrusions for fences which are often twisted and won't hold a setting, the tables are pretty rubbish too, a long way from flat and difficult if not impossible to set correctly. Add in lower quality motors, poor knife blocks and a poor knife changing process, rubbish dust extraction, thicknesser tables that won't hold flat during rise and fall, etc etc.

But, they look okay and promise a lot (without actually delivering much), so I guess they'll continue to sell in their thousands.

Sadly as a rookie woodworker I've already learned the painful lesson of a cheapo PT! I got this god awful Titan thing from Screwfix for £127, a bargain I thought. The thicknesser mode isn't too terrible but the planer/jointing mode is just comical with problems just as you describe, I can't get to make anything remotely flat! I think the fence is actually made from cheese. It now sits on the naughty step under my bench.

 

[OscarG]

The dewalt is the loudest in most tests. The makita is the quietist.
The makita also claims to produce the least amount of snipe. but the price reflects that. I settled for the jet.
the noise is almost the same on all of them when the wood is going through though.
Snipe is more of a problem if you are only running shorter planks through it.

This the Makita model you mean Bob?
MAKITA 2012NB
https://www.howetools.co.uk/makita-2012 ... lade-width

Thought I'd check as it seems cheaper than the DeWalt?