Luban Chinese Block Plane

[Majimoto]

To me, I don't care where an item is made, provided the seller provides country of origin. Then we can buy from wherever we want.

I do think there is a moral imperative not to support aggression and acts of war against innocent populations.

 

[thetyreman]

I do think there is a moral imperative not to support aggression and acts of war against innocent populations.

you can be anti war and pro capitalist though, that's pretty much where I stand, and a lot of russians are anti war and completely against putin.

 

[Jameshow]

I would prefer if the west were to start making inexpensive rather than cheap. However, as we have spent the last 40 years or so getting rid of any way of producing anything other than very expensive or very leading edge it will take us at least 5 years to get to the point that we can produce that which we currently get the east to make for us. Even then we could only do it if we seriously invest in new plants using automated production and also invest in people to manage and operate them. But i doubt we will, we can even invest in a merchant navy or crews needed just to feed us

If we can make Bentley and Aston Martin cars down to Ebac washing machines them we can make anything. What we don't have I'd the industrial / political leadership to do that.

This country is run by financiers, accountants and lawyers who aren't interested in making anything. All they are interested in the share price / dividend which if they invested in manufacturing would be alot more productive to themselves and society.

 

[raffo]

Going back to the OP, apparently from some picture he saw on the Internet he deduced the Luban branded planes are junk and somehow Obama's fault. Yeah, that's not racist.

 

[Eric R]

"Borderline racist" how you come to that conclusion I really don't know, fact is as a manufacturing nation the Chinese are totally irresponsible, look at there polluted waterways through solar panel production. We all need to be more conscious of where and who we are buying from, Matthew at Workshop Heaven recently started selling tools from a Russian maker, personally I wouldn't entertain buying these and I hope he's stopped selling them, the maker may be harmless but his taxes prop up the Putin regime.

I guess you don't remember all the horrible pollution inflicted on people living in US by their "responsible" manufacturing. Here's a few to let you know that industrial pollution isn't a cultural/national issue, only povs are: 1. love canal The Love Canal Tragedy | About EPA | US EPA 2. Hinkley California Hinkley groundwater contamination - Wikipedia 3. Flint water contamination.

 

[Eric R]

If we can make Bentley and Aston Martin cars down to Ebac washing machines them we can make anything. What we don't have I'd the industrial / political leadership to do that.

This country is run by financiers, accountants and lawyers who aren't interested in making anything. All they are interested in the share price / dividend which if they invested in manufacturing would be alot more productive to themselves and society.

history doesn't move backwards, fortunately. Here in the US, white people are always wanting to go back to the times like the 1950s as an ideal society. Except those easy economic times only happened because of lack of competition, WWII destroyed many other nation's industrial capacity and the racism of US kept white workers from having to compete fairly in the labor market with non-white workers. The reality is the consumers don't want goods made in the UK or US as much as they want low prices so that they can consume more.

 

[Tony Zaffuto]

I do think there is a moral imperative not to support aggression and acts of war against innocent populations.

"I do think" is your personal opinion, and I respect your opinion. My opinion is, it is up to individuals to decide their own litmus test for purchases.

 

[D_W]

Sorry but this reads as a borderline racist comment about a company that I am sure you know very little about. Some of the best quality manufactured products in the world currently come out of China, quite possibly including many of the devices we are all using to interact with this forum. Generalising that 'The Chinese' will do anything is simply an uneducated and ignorant remark.

The rest of this thread reads like a LN advert or someone trying to justify an expensive purchase to themselves. I would be amazed if anyone could differentiate which materials are being used to the level you are trying to claim purely by looking at them. The proof is in the using and having been hands on with the planes you mention, the Luban/Quangsheng models are very high quality, produce excellent results, and are extremely good value in comparison to other high end models.

I think in the US you'll find some cool opinions on the quangsheng planes not due to the origin, but due to the fact that QS started out copying LN and LV designs in a universe where enormous numbers of older tools were around and could've been copied. Part of this was probably due to what sells for the most now, and part was probably due to coordination with US and european retailers.

Hearing about LN tools being high end of high priced sort of wears me out. When stanley was making planes, they cost a large fraction of a skilled tradesman's day's wage (the bigger planes cost a full day) before taxes. That's about what LN planes costs now.

If LN had a significant profit margin, they wouldn't have been so dependent on a bank's yes or no when they wanted to expand a little bit about a decade ago.

I don't think LN's business could even exist in a lot of the parts of the US due to local wage competition.

I'd have a severe case of indifference about the QS tools if they would've copied established patterns, but the whole Chinese thing? Why would someone in China have a clue what's popular in the US. Almost certainly across the board, someone in the US or England was sending them stuff and saying "how much to make this?".

 

[raffo]

Since the thing with the shredded bullet casings that Obama supposedly banned never actually went into effect, and surprise surprise the policy was started by the previous Republican administration, where did Quangsheng get a hold of the tons of bullet brass to make their planes now?

https://www.factcheck.org/2009/06/georgia-arms/
Thirteen year old nonsense.

 

[shed9]

A lot to unpack in this thread but basically; no one country is in any position to dictate a commercial moral high ground over any other, irrelevant of whether that's predicated on the use of cheap materials, cheap labour or cheap environmental & safety measures. We all live in countries that have questionable history when it comes to manufacturing and outsourcing, the only difference being where each country is in that timeline of development and opportunism.

 

[mark w]

I guess you don't remember all the horrible pollution inflicted on people living in US by their "responsible" manufacturing. Here's a few to let you know that industrial pollution isn't a cultural/national issue, only povs are: 1. love canal The Love Canal Tragedy | About EPA | US EPA 2. Hinkley California Hinkley groundwater contamination - Wikipedia 3. Flint water contamination.

1920s and 1960s, you've gone back in time to dig those up, most countries including ours have had some sort of pollution scandal, particularly during the industrial revolution. China is still doing it, not only that, their total disregard for workers rights and working conditions are astounding, plus at the moment the Chinese Government are backing Putin, but hey, if you can save a few quid buying a cheap block plane I guess it's all ok.

 

[mark w]

A lot to unpack in this thread but basically; no one country is in any position to dictate a commercial moral high ground over any other, irrelevant of whether that's predicated on the use of cheap materials, cheap labour or cheap environmental & safety measures. We all live in countries that have questionable history when it comes to manufacturing and outsourcing, the only difference being where each country is in that timeline of development and opportunism.

During the industrial revolution some pollution and working conditions could be put down to ignorance, the effects to start with were unknown, China or any other country can't use that excuse now, no matter where they are in their development, everybody knows the affects now.

 

[shed9]

During the industrial revolution some pollution and working conditions could be put down to ignorance, the effects to start with were unknown, China or any other country can't use that excuse now, no matter where they are in their development, everybody knows the affects now.

You seriously think that the West's irresponsible attitude to manufacture and profit stopped in 1840? Really?

 

[shed9]

China is still doing it, not only that, their total disregard for workers rights and working conditions are astounding, plus at the moment the Chinese Government are backing Putin, but hey, if you can save a few quid buying a cheap block plane I guess it's all ok.

This isn't a Chinese government or nation thing, this is a commercial and operating territory thing. Commercial entities across the globe use manufacturing territories pretty much wherever they want, including UK and US based companies. Sure, China may facilitate cheap labour and lower working standards but that's the carrot in this scenario not the stick. If you want to muse about geo economic politics and climb that horse, go ahead but understand how you play a role in that before getting comfortable in that saddle.

 

[AlanY]

"I do think" is your personal opinion, and I respect your opinion. My opinion is, it is up to individuals to decide their own litmus test for purchases.

I agree and would prefer to follow my own moral compass rather than have one imposed upon me by a politician or political movement.

 

[Bodgers]

In surfing the internet in search of photos and data of the Stanley 52 chute board, my newest reproduction project, I came across a Luban block plane. The main name is one I can’t spell but starts with a Q.

At first glance it looks like a copy of the Lie Nielsen plane but then it hit me.

Under the Obama administration, remember him?, he passed legislation requiring spent army brass to be ground up so that it couldn’t be reloaded.

The Chinese bought tons of this brass confetti. I have worked with valves made of this stuff and they don’t sweat solder very well. You can tell from the color of its bullet brass.

Bullet brass is an alloy designed for the special needs of cartridge function. It tends to be higher in tin and does not machine as well as regular brass. Tends to be a bit grab-ie and breaks small end mills with ease as a result.

Traditional woodworking tools were gun metal which is a bronze. LN uses either a silicone bronze or a manganese bronze.

The Leban plane cap is way to yellow. A tin like yellow. These guys are using bullet brass to make these tools.

If you are fine with that, that’s OK. I just don’t like it’s color and I don’t like it’s workability. Personally I gravitate towards the bronze alloys. This is esp true in how the tool patinates over time. There os nothing better than seeing an older LN #4 smooth plane that had seen years of loving use by a craftsman.

Your army brass story sounds like urban legend stuff to me.

The Luban planes have been around for a long time now and they have a decent reputation (concerns about country of origin excepted).

If you want definitive answers Matthew at Workshop Heaven should be able to answer as they have been selling them for a long time and I'm pretty sure he stands by the product.

https://www.workshopheaven.com/blog/quangsheng-handle-change
I have the no. 6 Jointer and it is an excellent tool.

 

[Droogs]

1920s and 1960s, you've gone back in time to dig those up, most countries including ours have had some sort of pollution scandal, particularly during the industrial revolution. China is still doing it, not only that, their total disregard for workers rights and working conditions are astounding, plus at the moment the Chinese Government are backing Putin, but hey, if you can save a few quid buying a cheap block plane I guess it's all ok.

You do realise these tools are already extant not made to order specially for you, are being sold by traders who have already paid any taxes the chinese govmt will ever get and therefore are in no way funding Putin

 

[Rich C]

Well this thread has encouraged me to get a Luban block plane, so thanks for that OP.

 

[Majimoto]

"I do think" is your personal opinion, and I respect your opinion. My opinion is, it is up to individuals to decide their own litmus test for purchases.

Presuming you have a moral compass

 

[Orraloon]

I cant spend the time reading up on the current on trend moral high ground stance I should be taking every time I go to the hardware store. Now in my defense I did get my plane 12 years ago when I think we were helping China raise a billion people out of poverty. Some street cred there surely. However at the time I just thought it was a good buy. We would be in a pretty bare world if we did not have any Chinese made items around the house. I am sure sanctions will be on them too if they supply military aid to Putin but as Droogs just pointed out anything currently in the shops should not create a moral dilemma. Anyhow if looking to sanction a couple of things hows about a big ferry/shipping company and an international mail order mob that treats its workforce like serfs.
Regards
John