Low Angle smoothing planes

[mjh]

Apologies if this topic has been aired before, but as you say. I'm a newbie (where did that expression come from?) and I need to know before spending serious money.

How good are low angle/bevel up smoothing planes? Both LN and LV offer them. I seem to recall that the famous "Alf" rates them.

What is the advantage over say a good old Stanley 60.5 low angle block plane fitted with a Hock A2 blade and tuned a la Charlesworth?

I have to trim the pins on 1.6 metres (4x420mm) of maple dovetails (it's a blanket chest).

 

[MikeG.]

Welcome MJH,

I'm not too interested in the plane...........but I am interested in what you are making! Lets see some pictures!!

Actually.......thats one of the "rules" here: without photos it didn't happen! So, we all look forward to your piccies.

Mike

 

[p111dom]

I have a Veritas bevel up low angle smoother and I think it's great. Super build qualtiy and a real joy to use.

 

[mjh]

Hello Mike Garnham
You wrote
"I'm not too interested in the plane...........but I am interested in what you are making! Lets see some pictures!!""

I will do my best sir. Just finished gluing up the lid, the chest is next. There is lots of clever stuff to come though.

What's the easiest way to post pictures on UKW?

Hello p111dom
Thanks for the feedback

 

[woodbloke]

I think if you have a look under some of the now long departed Alf's scribblings in the Hand Tool forum you'll come across a review of the LV BU smoother. I have one and it's my smoother of choice now over anything else, and I've tried lots. The only thing that might possibly work better is an offering from certain planemakers like Holtey or Marcou - Rob

 

[PaulO]

For that job I would just use my LN 5 or 5 1/2. Plane from the edge to the centre to prevent tear out, or plane a micro bevel on the trailing edge and plane through (ensuring you maintain the micro bevel). Set for a fine shaving, say 1 to 1.5 thou and make sure your blade is sharp. I always find cleaning up dovetails one of the most satisfying jobs.

60.5 is a bit too small for this job, both in terms of the time it would take and the weight. Never felt the need for a BU jack or smoothing plane (or for that matter any smoothing plane).

 

[Mr Ed]

For that job I would just use my LN 5 or 5 1/2.

Thats fine, and I would do the same on a well behaved wood, but the 45 degree pitch becomes a problem on leary timber. Then the only option is a higher pitch, or higher 'effective' pitch, which is where the bevel up planes come in.

I too have operated for years with only a LN 5.5 but increasingy I realise that a shorter plane that can achieve high pitch angles is worth having.

Cheers, Ed

 

[Ironballs]

I also have the LV BUS and can only echo the comments of others that it is a superb plane and my goto on difficult wood or wandering grain. It's not big yet has sufficient mass to push through and keep moving. I've used it to clean up dovetails and it does the job very well

Cheers, Damian

 

[PaulO]

For that job I would just use my LN 5 or 5 1/2.

Thats fine, and I would do the same on a well behaved wood, but the 45 degree pitch becomes a problem on leary timber. Then the only option is a higher pitch, or higher 'effective' pitch, which is where the bevel up planes come in.

Or a back bevel on a BD plane.

Other than a lower CG I'm not really sure what a BU achieves that can't be achieved with a BD. I find both the lateral and depth adjustment on a bedrock much more accurate and simpler to use, no faffing about with loosening the blade.

 

[woodbloke]

Other than a lower CG I'm not really sure what a BU achieves that can't be achieved with a BD. I find both the lateral and depth adjustment on a bedrock much more accurate and simpler to use, no faffing about with loosening the blade.

Difficult to quantify really, it's just the feel of a BU plane in the hand. I've tried LN's, Clifton's, Record Calvert-Stevens (I have one) S&S and I still prefer the LN BU to any of them. But as always it's 'horses for courses' and what may suit one won't do for another. Best thing to do IMO is gate crash a bash (is there one on somewhere soon, 'oop north' I think) and have a play - Rob

 

[newt]

Rob, do you mean you prefer the LV BU . Ed have you given much thought to what you are going to buy BD or BU ?

 

[woodbloke]

Rob, do you mean you prefer the LV BU . Ed have you given much thought to what you are going to buy BD or BU ?

Quite correct Pete LV not LN - Rob

 

[PaulO]

but increasingy I realise that a shorter plane that can achieve high pitch angles is worth having.

Cheers, Ed

What advantage do you see in a shorter plane? I've never understood why a "smoother" needs to be shorter. Is it just that you are taking a lighter cut so don't need the heft, or that the work should already be flat(ish)?

 

[Mr Ed]

What advantage do you see in a shorter plane? I've never understood why a "smoother" needs to be shorter. Is it just that you are taking a lighter cut so don't need the heft, or that the work should already be flat(ish)?

Hmmm, I asked exactly the same question here;

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/view ... torder=asc

which may make interesting reading.

I think the benefit is being able to get a finishing shaving off a surface that may not be wholly flat, as it would have to be for the longer plane to work, if that makes sense.

Cheers, Ed

 

[Woody Alan]

I think the benefit is being able to get a finishing shaving off a surface that may not be wholly flat, as it would have to be for the longer plane to work, if that makes sense.

Absolutely perfect sense, that's what it's all about at the end of the day. there will always be opinions about these things, but until they are tried by the individual the realisation of what can be acheived ultimately by the right plane is very difficult to imagine and so easy to dismiss as unneccessary, even by people who acheive extremely high quality work. It is just so mauch easier with the right tool for the job. Still acheiveable with much less of course, (as I have in the past) which is why it's easy to dismiss. There is no way I would give up my LV BUS or LV LAJ, I would sooner trade in my LN's (not really) but it does put them high on the list, and I say that having just come in from the workshop doing a bit of edge planing with a LN7.

Alan

 

[MikeG.]

What's the easiest way to post pictures on UKW?

This link has all the answers. Essentially you park your pictures on a remote site and paste the URL into your post......but read this:


https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=14776

Mike

 

[mjh]

I think if you have a look under some of the now long departed Alf's scribblings in the Hand Tool forum you'll come across a review of the LV BU smoother. I have one and it's my smoother of choice now over anything else, and I've tried lots. The only thing that might possibly work better is an offering from certain planemakers like Holtey or Marcou - Rob

Thanks Woodbloke. I dug out the above mentioned comprhensive reviews of both the LV LA smoother and the LV BU smoother. Seems to be Alf favoured the latter, as you yourself do.

By the way, why do you refer to Alf as "long departed". His site/blog seems to be up and running or am I not getting something?

 

[Ironballs]

Long departed from this site but still very much alive and kicking. It's all part of "The split" that occurred some time before I joined

 

[Woodmagnet]

I think if you have a look under some of the now long departed Alf's scribblings in the Hand Tool forum you'll come across a review of the LV BU smoother. I have one and it's my smoother of choice now over anything else, and I've tried lots. The only thing that might possibly work better is an offering from certain planemakers like Holtey or Marcou - Rob

Thanks Woodbloke. I dug out the above mentioned comprhensive reviews of both the LV LA smoother and the LV BU smoother. Seems to be Alf favoured the latter, as you yourself do.

By the way, why do you refer to Alf as "long departed". His site/blog seems to be up and running or am I not getting something?

Alf is not a him/he MJH. :wink:

 

[Anonymous]

How good are low angle/bevel up smoothing planes? Both LN and LV offer them. I seem to recall that the famous "Alf" rates them.

I have the LV and had the LN. Generally, my preference is for LN planes over LV as they are beteer finished and use higher quality materials in places.

However, with a bevel up smoother, the LV is superior to the LN due to its weight. I sold my LN as it iwas too liught and 'skittish'

Having said that, I don't reach for the bevel up smoother very often at all - my 4.5 is a much better plane in every way and works superbly. Bevel up smoothers are really just large block planes and will be great for your end-grain pins, but for general smoothing of surfaces, you can't beat a 4.5 (with its extra weight)

By the way, mnost peope who rave about bevel up smoothers only have the one LN or LV smoother, I have several LN smoothers and stand by the #4.5 comment