LN No9 Mitre Plane

[Paddy Roxburgh]

You ask and interesting question here Charles How do we compare prices over time, do LN and the like cost more than Stanley and diston did 50 years ago? You are correct that we do not necessarily have reliable data to make comparisons (certainly I don't). As I find this an interesting question I am starting a new thread to ask older forum users what insite they can offer on this question.
Paddy

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

I suggest we use this forum as a resource to examine this question. So is their anyone reading this who bought Stanley/record/disston tools 50 years ago?

Well, Jacob, what can you tell us ...

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Trafalgar]

You ask and interesting question here Charles How do we compare prices over time, do LN and the like cost more than Stanley and diston did 50 years ago? You are correct that we do not necessarily have reliable data to make comparisons (certainly I don't). As I find this an interesting question I am starting a new thread to ask older forum users what insite they can offer on this question.
Paddy

Given Stanley's output, if they were charging what would compute to be an equivalent amount to today's L-N plane they were just blatantly raping their market. Imagine Thomas Lie-Nielsen producing and selling as many planes as Stanley did and at the current amount he charges for planes. He would be worth millions and millions of dollars. Does not pass the laugh test. Seriously.

I would GUESS that six months' to a year's worth of production at Stanley's peak will have represented the entire production of Lie-Nielsen from birth of the company to whatever point in time they cease production. Stanley made a boatload of planes in their day. I would imagine Stanley scrapped more planes in a year than Lie-Nielsen sells in a year and probably by a wide margin.

 

[Paddy Roxburgh]

Derek, I edited my post and have posted my question in a slightly less rambling way in a new thread.

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Derek, I edited my post and have posted my question in a slightly less rambling way in a new thread.

Rats! Think we should leave the post in?

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Paddy Roxburgh]

You ask and interesting question here Charles How do we compare prices over time, do LN and the like cost more than Stanley and diston did 50 years ago? You are correct that we do not necessarily have reliable data to make comparisons (certainly I don't). As I find this an interesting question I am starting a new thread to ask older forum users what insite they can offer on this question.
Paddy

Given Stanley's output, if they were charging what would compute to be an equivalent amount to today's L-N plane they were just blatantly raping their market. Imagine Thomas Lie-Nielsen producing and selling as many planes as Stanley did and at the current amount he charges for planes. He would be worth millions and millions of dollars. Does not pass the laugh test. Seriously.

I would GUESS that six months' to a year's worth of production at Stanley's peak will have represented the entire production of Lie-Nielsen from birth of the company to whatever point in time they cease production. Stanley made a boatload of planes in their day. I would imagine Stanley scrapped more planes in a year than Lie-Nielsen sells in a year and probably by a wide margin.

I think you'll find Stanley were worth millions and millions of dollars. As I explained in my new thread I can't be wrong (or right) about this as I don't know the answer,but purely how many planes were made does not answer the question. Data from a few people on this forum will not give a clear answer either, for example we are only comparing the wages of a craftsman not the amateur market. A plane may have cost a weeks wages for a craftsmen but only a days wages to a middleclass professional, but it will give us some indication.
Saying all of this does not mean that I think you need to buy LN or the like. We live in time of the internet and a glut of secondhand tools. I think that al my planes and saws and most of my chisels (If you don't count the AI gouges I bought for violin making) cost less that the price of one LN plane, and do work fine.Indeed for me the fact that decent tools could be bought so cheap has been part of my slow conversion away from spinning blades to cutting edges.
Paddy



Y




Paddy

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

You ask and interesting question here Charles How do we compare prices over time, do LN and the like cost more than Stanley and diston did 50 years ago? You are correct that we do not necessarily have reliable data to make comparisons (certainly I don't). As I find this an interesting question I am starting a new thread to ask older forum users what insite they can offer on this question.
Paddy

Given Stanley's output, if they were charging what would compute to be an equivalent amount to today's L-N plane they were just blatantly raping their market. Imagine Thomas Lie-Nielsen producing and selling as many planes as Stanley did and at the current amount he charges for planes. He would be worth millions and millions of dollars. Does not pass the laugh test. Seriously.

I would GUESS that six months' to a year's worth of production at Stanley's peak will have represented the entire production of Lie-Nielsen from birth of the company to whatever point in time they cease production. Stanley made a boatload of planes in their day. I would imagine Stanley scrapped more planes in a year than Lie-Nielsen sells in a year and probably by a wide margin.

Charles, you are not comparing Apples with Apples. Thomas Lie-Nielsen has never marketed his planes to the masses. Neither would, I imagine, most serious mass-producing furniture makers be purchasing handtools such as LN. They would be using power. These are tools for the serious amateur. Some discerning professionals too.

This does not constitute agreement with you that LN is seen as an entry tool - although there are plenty of amateurs from all walks of income who might aspire to them. Why not - they are aspirational tools - sometimes they are working tools as well. What I do agree with you on is that there could be a "rite of passage" to better tools. What I am not comfortable with is prescribing this or expecting this - it smacks too much of jealousy or envy for those that can afford what you may not.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[iNewbie]

I think of all the hobbies and professions out there, woodworking surely must have the highest number of amateur economists, international diplomats, and human rights activists.

This sort of snide dig is unbecoming of any hobby or profession.

I'm professing these digs are his hobby...


/you'll get used to it.

 

[Bluekingfisher]

I think of all the hobbies and professions out there, woodworking surely must have the highest number of amateur economists, international diplomats, and human rights activists.

This sort of snide dig is unbecoming of any hobby or profession.

I'm professing these digs are his hobby...


/you'll get used to it.

..................Or perhaps just an observation.

 

[yetloh]

Looks like this may be the answer for those who mourn the No 9 http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=73208&cat=1

With the PMVII blade it may well be better than the LN although there will doubtless be some who wil reject it because it doesn't look nice enough. I've not heard any word about its UK availability.

Jim

 

[yetloh]

I'd also like to hear yetloH's experiences.

Custard,

I've sent you a PM.

Jim

 

[Trafalgar]

Jim, tried to respond to your PM but having trouble with the send function for some reason.

 

[mouppe]

Looks like this may be the answer for those who mourn the No 9 http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=73208&cat=1

With the PMVII blade it may well be better than the LN although there will doubtless be some who wil reject it because it doesn't look nice enough. I've not heard any word about its UK availability.

Jim

I don't understand where this plane fits in the line-up? Veritas already have a shooting plane for the same price with a similar blade angle. This new mitre plane seems to be just a block plane with an extra knob.

Can anyone enlighten me?

 

[yetloh]

It's quite a bit bigger than a block plane and primarily intended for end grain, like the LN #9, hence the low angle. The shooting plane is mainly for long grain edges.

Jim

 

[Karl]

The Veritas offering looks quite interesting - be interesting to see how the price compares over here (although Dieter Schmidt will be cheaper than Axi no doubt).

Wonder if this is part of the reason for LN ceasing production of the No9 - they got wind that LV were introducing a similar mitre plane and saw their market share for a specialist plane being eaten into. :-k

Cheers

Karl

 

[mouppe]

It's quite a bit bigger than a block plane and primarily intended for end grain, like the LN #9, hence the low angle. The shooting plane is mainly for long grain edges.

Jim

They are both low angle and the blade widths are within 1/4" of each other. Seems like much of a muchness to me.

 

[Jacob]

I suggest we use this forum as a resource to examine this question. So is their anyone reading this who bought Stanley/record/disston tools 50 years ago?

Well, Jacob, what can you tell us ...

Regards from Perth

Derek

I can't remember, but they were very expensive. I first bought a few new tools in about 1969, including an orange B&D 720 hammer drill. The plane was an expensive and difficult decision and I could only afford one so I bought a Stanley 7. This was a mistake I realised years later when I bought a 5 1/2, which is a much better general purpose jack plane.

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Jacob, you and I must be about the same age. I was purchasing very similar tools about the same time as you. My first power purchases were a BD drill and jigsaw - not orange, but I recall an olive-tan colour - and my first plane a Stanley #5 1/2. I still have it.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Benchwayze]

I daresay there's someone who could make a wooden version?

I still use a Record 5-1/2 for shooting.
For shooting picture frames and the like, I turn to my trusty old mitre-trimmer; works both ways, without having to buy both right and left handed planes.

But I did fancy one of the LN shooting planes. I hope they aren't going to shoot themselves in the foot, by discontinuing the plane. 8) :?

Two posts magically appeared!
Someone asked about tools bought in the 1960s.

I bought my first plane in '62. A Stanley No. 4 would you believe, from Hall's Tools in Birmingham, right next to where the WMP Headquarters is now situated. On the corner, there was a great Victorian themed restaurant called 'Fanny's'. Those were the days. A full kit of basic hand-tools for £15.00 (Approx) then round to Fanny's for a delicious steak and kidney pudding!

 

[Fromey]

I have a LN no. 9 for sale. Will be cleaning it up, sharpening it, taking some photos and putting it in the sale forum some time next week.