Lie-Nielsen Chisels-anyone else having problems?

[Newbie_Neil]

Hi Randy

Welcome to the forum.

Cheers
Neil

 

[Alf]

Could some kind person please correct the spelling of the title of this thread?

And to think I use to get paid to proof read!

Whereas I was never good enough to get paid... :roll: :lol: I assumed Lie Nelson was the chap who wisely turned a blind eye to chisel criticism. :wink:

Welcome to the forum, Randy. Evidentally a man of courage; good for you.

The sharpening-to-get-to-the-good-stuff phenomenon perplexes me greatly 'cos I is mighty ignorant when it comes to heat treating and such (and to a certain extent it's ignorance I treasure ). How come some things exhibit it and some don't? Is it solely down to variables in manufacturing, or in the steel itself? I've had blades from both LN and LV that have suffered from it but there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to it that this mere wood butcher can see.

Cheers, Alf

 

[Lord Nibbo]

Now I'm really in a dilemma, I've been watching this thread avidly, mainly to see if it came to a conclusion of good or bad.

My reason is I had planned on my brother inlaw bringing me a set of nine bench chisels over fron the states when he visits in the new year.

Now I'm not so sure, do or don't I go ahead with the purchase?

 

[Philly]

LN
They are a fantastic chisel and beautifully built. You will not be disappointed!
At this exchange rate you know it makes sense :lol:
I'll buy them off you if you don't like them :wink:
Philly

 

[Jez]

The edges on mine havn't had any problems but i opened my chisel roll a few days ago and there were small amounts of rust starting to form on the blades... :shock: :shock:

I keep them in the house as i don't have a workshop yet (collage) but it was quite suprising to find as i havn't had them that long, it says to apply a small coat of oil in the "care instructions" but i don't do that, but should probably start as i think that i might have learn't the hard way....

Still havn't got it off, has anybody got any ideas ? :x

cheers,
Jez

 

[Bean]

Look folks its very simple really,

LN advertise their chisels as being of a certain hardness, not as being of two quite different hardness's, the softer being the one at the working edge. The chisel is not to the advertised specification. It may be heresy to some, but it is a 'duffer' plain and simple.

As for grinding the edge away to expose good steel, that wreaks of poor production qualities, if that extra grinding is required to produce a good edge on this tool, why is it not done in the factory. After all the reason you pay so much is that you receive a good tool from the box that works from the box. Not one that requires further work to make it a good tool. I can spend 7 and not 35 to do that. Carrying out the regrinding yourself only masks the problem.
after all if you bought a car that was not satisfactory would you just accept it and drive away or would you complain.
Unlike some on this forum I do not receive free tools from these manufacturers, hence I do not have to defend them, by intimating that a little regrinding here or there is ok and that a bit of crumbling is just one of those quirky things you get with tools. a duffer is a duffer plain and simple. Even the best manufactures get one wrong now and then, and the only way to get them to change/clean up their act is to complain.
On that note I have received no reply from LN, which I will put down to the weekend. As and when I get a reply I will let you know.

 

[CHJ]

Jez, The rust is probably the result of handling them, even small amounts of unseen perspiration contain enough salt to enhance the moisture content and combined with the acids from the skin encourage rust.

If it is very light try polishing it off with stiff paper and light oil.
If this fails progressively try talcum powder with light oil and then something like CIF.

Always wipe your metal surfaces with a lightly oiled rag before stowing or leaving for any length of time.

Good practice anyway to remove any resin etc. ready for next usage.

 

[Lord Nibbo]

LN
They are a fantastic chisel and beautifully built. You will not be disappointed!
At this exchange rate you know it makes sense :lol:
I'll buy them off you if you don't like them :wink:
Philly

Interestingly a set from John Lloyd is cheaper than buying them seperately from Axminster. John Lloyds are priced at £321 Axminster add up to £337.

Buying them direct from LN they are $450 + $18 shipping within the USA so they would cost me £236 :shock: No duty, No VAT :lol: :lol: :lol:

I wonder if they are in stock or I would have to wait, perhaps a phone call tomorrow is in order, what do you think?

 

[Anonymous]

Yes give em a bell if you really want some crumbly chisels a bit cheaper.

cheers
Jacob

 

[Anonymous]

Yes give em a bell if you really want some crumbly chisels a bit cheaper.

cheers
Jacob

Ah but remember Jacob they have a "lovely balance and fit the hand nicely" :lol: :lol:

 

[Paul Kierstead]

Yes give em a bell if you really want some crumbly chisels a bit cheaper.

As a matter of asking, under what conditions did your LN chisels crumble?

 

[MikeW]

Look folks its very simple really,

LN advertise their chisels as being of a certain hardness, not as being of two quite different hardness's, the softer being the one at the working edge. The chisel is not to the advertised specification. It may be heresy to some, but it is a 'duffer' plain and simple.

As for grinding the edge away to expose good steel, that wreaks of poor production qualities,...

...Even the best manufactures get one wrong now and then, and the only way to get them to change/clean up their act is to complain.
On that note I have received no reply from LN, which I will put down to the weekend. As and when I get a reply I will let you know.

It's simple then. And it sounds like you have initiated the proper response--send them back.

You are wrong re the quality control issues, even if your particular chisels are of wrong temper. Soft chisels, the type you believe are better, will exhibit other types of failure, and chances are once a few sharpenings have occured, will seem better than at first. Neither type in that sense are of poor quality.

Unlike some on this forum I do not receive free tools from these manufacturers, hence I do not have to defend them...

Seeing how only three people here on the UK Forum have received what *may* be construed as "free" tools as far as I know, I find that statement contentious and ill spoken. You are basically saying their allegiance to those makers is bought and paid for. Pity you belive that.

Take care, Mike

 

[Anonymous]

I think Bean is voicing an opinion that is shared by many on this forum, that LN are somewhat over promoted. That they are the best, always perfect and instantly useable, and that everything else is rubbish. Coupled with the over-enthusiastic antics of the fan base a bit of a reaction is highly desireable IMHO just to bring back a sense of reality.
I admit to being surprised that they can be faulty - my objections were only to the aggressive promotion of this one brand and misinformation about the qualities of the cheaper stuff most of us have to use.
They have only themselves to blame for their pushy and complacent marketing.

cheers
Jacob
unpaid rep for the 2nd hand rubbish end of the market :lol:

 

[David C]

Thank's Mike.

My main business is teaching fine cabinetmaking to adults.

When I started the tools available were at an all time low quality, or did they get even worse for a while.

In order to do fine work it helps enormously to have good tools, so I have been systematically seeking these for the last 30 years, so that I can advise students what to buy if they ask.

I also write articles and make technique DVDs.

Over the years I have had review tools from many manufacturers, often through the magazine, and not necessarily ones I wanted. Many go back, some are paid for some are not. Some I buy for myself because I am interested to try them. Some manufacturers like their tools to be available in my workshop so that students may try them.

The advice I give is entirely subjectively based on my own experience and preferences. Although the students opinions and experience are also very helpful.

It is freely given and the audience are welcome to make what they will of it.

David Charlesworth

 

[Alf]

As for grinding the edge away to expose good steel, that wreaks of poor production qualities, if that extra grinding is required to produce a good edge on this tool, why is it not done in the factory.

Well it kinda depends on why it's happening, which is why I asked. If it's something that happens regularly enough, then perhaps they should. Or make it clear it's a possible issue in the accompanying information. On the other hand if it's a rare occurance then yeah, you have a duffer and it should go back. I'd still like to know how big a part the abnormally hard and abrasive woods you've tried them on is playing in the results you've seen though, but I guess it's only us acquirers of "free" tools who take the trouble to try out things and report back for the benefit of others.

I think Bean is voicing an opinion that is shared by many on this forum, that LN are somewhat over promoted. That they are the best, always perfect and instantly useable, and that everything else is rubbish.

I think Bean is voicing a lot of opinion I'd sooner do without, but what I believe he's saying is that he expects the chisels to work on abnormal woods without making allowance for the characteristics of the tool and the method of manufacture. What the "fan base" are saying is that's possibly an unreasonable expectation. But unless he tries the options we don't know if it's a legitimate argument or that he has, in fact, got a rubbish example. In which case we'll all get accused of being over-enthusiastic fans again when we say "no problem then, LN will take them back". As Bean is apparently desiring more than these chisels in their present state can provide and is unwilling to steepen the bevel to see if that's an improvement or try them on less forbidding woods, it's best all round if he gets his money back and I look forward to hearing of the out-of-the-box perfection of whatever he gets as an alternative so we all know what to recommend instead.

Cheers, Alf

P.S. Just remembered my "obligation" to a certain manufacturer - Buy Lee Valley Chisels, folks. I've never tried one but they must be good, eh? Sheesh. :roll:

 

[Bean]

Who would have thought a duff chisel would cause so much excitement. Firstly I am told that the crumbly edge is due to not using the manufacturers recomended and ground angle, now I am told is because I have not changed the angle, anyone else on here getting dizzy yet :wink:

As I have said I do not have an axe to grind I have a duff chisel, plain and simple. If there are people on here who cannot bear to think that LN could possibly produce anything that is not perfect, its their problem and something they need to sort out with their psychiatrist.

I agree with David C's comment on the need for fine tools and the alarming and appalling quality tools produced by some 'quality' toolmakers.

I agree that certain toolmakers are pushed hard on this forum, for one reason or another, and I have been pm'd by a member in the past asking me not to share my opinions, when they have informed new members to only buy a 400 gbp saw when they needed to cut a piece of skirting board when a 5 gbp hardpoint saw would have done it. Strange, unless there are undisclosed vested interests.

Alf your comment of

I think Bean is voicing a lot of opinion I'd sooner do without

backs up my earlier posts. If, as and when LN contact me regarding this chisel, and either replace it with a good one or refund my money I will be happy. I will however not allow my allegence to a company stop me from believing that they can, will and do produce 'duffers' from time to time.

As to the general merits of the chisel I like it, it fits my hand well, I like the length and the weight. I would have liked to see the fine side bevel extending further back along the chiels length, but it doesn't, oh well. If it could hold an edge it would be a better than good chisel. As it doesn't hold an edge, maybe it will make a good door wedge or paint can opener, I will let you know when I have explored those possibilities.

 

[Alf]

Bill, either you're willfully missing my point or I'm making it poorly, but either way we're evidentally not going to agree.

Alf your comment of

I think Bean is voicing a lot of opinion I'd sooner do without

backs up my earlier posts. If, as and when LN contact me regarding this chisel, and either replace it with a good one or refund my money I will be happy. I will however not allow my allegence to a company stop me from believing that they can, will and do produce 'duffers' from time to time.

Okay, lets' spell this one out for you. The opinion I'd sooner do without is this (now repeated) half-pineappled claim that I have some sort of allegiance to Lie-Nielsen. I do not. I never have had. All opinions I've ever expressed on forums concerning LN tools have been based exclusively on tools I have either bought, been given as gifts by family or have been loaned for the short duration of a review. Even if that was not the case, I suggest you stop judging others by your own evidentally low standards.

Alf

 

[Paul Kierstead]

They have only themselves to blame for their pushy and complacent marketing.

Show me the marketing that *LN* has done. Sure some people are overly enthusiastic, but that doesn't make the product bad or the company at fault.

 

[Philly]

Something I forgot to mention earlier-I had the same problem with my Japanese chisels when I first got them. They chipped out real easy at first, but with a few sharpenings this passed and their edge holding ability improved considerably. So not just a problem with the L-N's (in my experience)

:!: On another note- I am becoming disheartened at the growing number of thinly veiled personal attacks on this forum. Please take a moment to read through the forum rules. In future, any similar occurances will be deleted and members warned. If you have evidence of members acting improperly please bring this to the notice of the Forum Moderators.

Let's keep our forum the friendly, sharing place it is

Philly

 

[Lord Nibbo]

Who would have thought a duff chisel would cause so much excitement. :wink:

I agree with David C's comment on the need for fine tools and the alarming and appalling quality tools produced by some 'quality' toolmakers.

So your not keen on LN, so please tell me who makes a better chisel?