Labour's Employment Rights Bill

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Why - out of the blue - did Labour cancel Winter Fuel Allowance - I don't recall it being in their pre-election Manifesto?
What makes this so farcical is that not so long ago Starmer in parliament was having a go at Sunak because of rumours that they might be thinking of scrapping the winter fuel allowance which he said would be an awful decision to take. Now we also have reeves saying she will raise taxes whilst councils are saying that they still have empty houses for sale and building more will not mean that people can afford to buy them so looks like no honeymoon period for labour as Starmer shows just what a hollow and thoughtless leader he is by turning up in Southport, laying some flowers and then just turning his back on those that would have appreciated just a few words of support.
 
giving inflation-busting pay rise of 5.5% and now 22%, to hopefully buy off the Trade Unions who bankroll Labour seems at odds with that.
How many times does it need to said that it ISN'T "inflation busting" because these groups have had BELOW inflation pay increases for years and years. Restitution back to pre-austerity would be equal to a 35% rise, so at 22% they're STILL behind where they should have been.
FFS junior doctors get £15/hr
 
The most needy get the allowance, from what I've read. Those living near the boundaries of any benefit entitlement are always going to feel the pinch, the most, as do those who earn just enough to attract the higher tax rate. That is life, in any political arena.
Well yes, in a narrow sense, that's true, in that the winter fuel payment will now be limited to people over state pension age who are receiving pension credit or a limited number of other benefits. The changes mean that only 1.5 million pensioners will be eligible - down from 11.4 million when the payment was universal. In considering the term 'needy', I'd reiterate that the National Minimum Wage for 2024 is £11.44 an hour, so someone who is working and works 40 hours a week would earn £457.60 a week = £23.795 a year. In contrast with that, pensioners on £11,350 and above who will lose their winter fuel allowance yet will be on half the income of someone on the minimum wage. £218.00 a week.

The UK definition of 'poverty' in anyone who received 60% or less of the median wage, so to that extent, 'relative poverty' will never be eliminated, but using that benchmark of 'poverty' usually, salaries are higher in the public sector than in the private sector. In 2023, the median full-time salary for someone working in the private sector in the UK was £34,217, while those in the public sector earned a median salary of £36,708.

So taking a round figure of £35,000, 60% of that would be £21,000 (£404 a week). Yet pensioners who receive as little as £11,350 (£218 a week), well below the poverty line, will now lose their winter fuel allowance. Of course, many pensioners - particularly those who worked in the public sector, some of who such as police officers and firefighter, will have retired at 60 on a handsome final salary pension, as will be some who worked in the private sector, myself included.

I'm not strapped for cash and won't miss the payment, I'd just reiterate that until the announcement was made by Rachel Reeves, there had been no mention of this intention, and that both she and her sidekick Angela Raynor had denounced the Tory party saying "unlike them (the 'nasty party') your winter fuel allowance and pension is safe with us". I think that comfortably comes within the term 'hypocritical', especially when they've bought off and appeased the Unions with a pay rise ten times that of inflation. That won't of curse be the end of it. It brings to mind Neville Chamberlain wafting his piece of paper saying 'peace in our time'. (A lamb can lie down with a lion, but the lamb won't get much sleep).
 
What, like slavery, low wages, children doing factory work, colonialism, land theft, genocide, environmental destruction?
Maybe, instead of saying " Socialism is Pragmatism ", which from a logical point of view cannot be true, you should have said " My form of Socialism is tempered with Pragmatism" :unsure:
 
Maybe, instead of saying " Socialism is Pragmatism ", which from a logical point of view cannot be true, you should have said " My form of Socialism is tempered with Pragmatism" :unsure:
OK how about "socialism" is a name for the pragmatic approach to governing "for the many, not the few"? Or something along those lines.
 
It's fast becoming obvious that the members of this government are simply downright liars based on the fact that they are already letting it be known that they will put up taxes which they promised they wouldn't. They knew well enough the state of public finances before they applied for the job but now they're in it, they're using the "we didn't realise how bad things were" excuse to cover the fact that they lied in order to gain enough votes to win the election.

They're also paying out way above inflation public sector wage rises which is manifestly irresponsible given their indications of the public finances being so bad.
I never rated Starmer et al as an opposition leader and by the looks of it, that trait continues.
 
It's fast becoming obvious that the members of this government are simply downright liars based on the fact that they are already letting it be known that they will put up taxes which they promised they wouldn't. They knew well enough the state of public finances before they applied for the job but now they're in it, they're using the "we didn't realise how bad things were" excuse to cover the fact that they lied in order to gain enough votes to win the election.

They're also paying out way above inflation public sector wage rises which is manifestly irresponsible given their indications of the public finances being so bad.
I never rated Starmer et al as an opposition leader and by the looks of it, that trait continues.
Well if they do actually put up taxes at the top end and put an end to 45 years of austerity, I would excuse them the lies!
They do have the main-stream media to contend with, which is almost entirely dominated by right wing mega-rich non doms who will do anything to protect their ill gotten gains, including mass brain washing, as we see everywhere every day.

https://www.theguardian.com/comment.../31/brazil-global-tax-billionaires-super-rich
 
They're also paying out way above inflation public sector wage rises
How many times does it need to said that it ISN'T "inflation busting" because these groups have had BELOW inflation pay increases for years and years. Restitution back to pre-austerity would be equal to a 35% rise, so at 22% they're STILL behind where they should have been.

Or maybe you like the idea of doctors not being paid well and them all giving up or moving abroad and the NHS collapsing into needing private health insurance.

Stop believing right wing press and tory shill nonsense.
 
The thing is, if you don't attend to the needs of the population, supporting those with least, you end up with a fundamentally unstable society. From the little I understand, that's precisely what's been happening in the US - underfund public services, allow great swathes of your population to suffer from lack of education, health care and so on, and you may end up on the brink of civil war. So yes, it will make things happen, but not necessarily the things we'd want to see happen.
I would agree with your summing up of the situation in America. Not that Inflation isn't one way of trying to reduce the national debt though it is difficult to control especially if the people take to the streets. It can fuel the worst sort of populism, just as it did in Weimar Germany.

My argument isn't with governments being pragmatic or not, but with @Jacob 's sweeping statement that " Socialism is Pragmatism" which it clearly is not.
 
It's fast becoming obvious that the members of this government are simply downright liars based on the fact that they are already letting it be known that they will put up taxes which they promised they wouldn't.
They said they wouldn't increase certain taxes; they never said they wouldn't put up any taxes.
 
It's fast becoming obvious that the members of this government are simply downright liars based on the fact that they are already letting it be known that they will put up taxes which they promised they wouldn't.
They didn't say that. They said they wouldn't increase VAT, National Insurance and Income Tax.

Edit: Chris 152 got there before me, and this point has been mentioned already. Sometimes replying on these political threads reminds me of years ago telling my kids something over and over while they put their fingers in their ears and yell 'Nyah, nyah, nyah....'
 
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Not only did they not do that, in the winter of 22/23, in addition to retaining the Winter Fuel Allowance, they gave every household £400. Doesn't sound very nasty to me
Would that be the same Tory party that privatised the energy sector……..

Privatising energy suppliers was supposed to give consumers choice, but most of the 40+ suppliers just closed down and left the market. A good example of moral hazard.
 
It's fast becoming obvious that the members of this government are simply downright liars based on the fact that they are already letting it be known that they will put up taxes which they promised they wouldn't.
I don't think they lied but were just deceitful, they knew if they kept quiet and did not say to much then they would win on the basis of a knee jerk reaction from many who thought it could not get any worse and took a gamble but it looks like the gamble is not going to pay of.

I never rated Starmer
There has always been something not right, always avoiding giving anything away and not showing any leadership skills. He has the presence of a damp squid ! But now look at the tory lineup for leader and that is no better, a right bunch of hopefuls trying to run before they can walk.

Well if they do actually put up taxes at the top end and put an end to 45 years of austerity, I would excuse them the lies!
The fact they have already shown they are willing to hit the pensioners then odds on they will also hit the average joe as sir starmer probably does not want to upset the richer end, ie his mates.

How many times does it need to said that it ISN'T "inflation busting" because these groups have had BELOW inflation pay increases for years and years.
Fully agree, but it has been the inflation and economic mess that has left many people out of pocket as wages have not kept up with the cost of living so giving pay rises that move people to a salary they should already be on is not inflation busting and they could not lose face over the junior doctors because they have said they will fix the nhs which means paying the right money to retain and get medical staff.
 
You're getting there. :giggle:
Marx nailed it: "Philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways; the point, however, is to change it"
Salisbury nailed tory philosophy:
“The use of Conservatism was to delay changes till they become harmless.”
“Whatever happens will be for the worse, and therefore it is in our interest that as little should happen as possible”. :unsure:
 
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As with Blair, I think the term used is 'Champagne Socialist'.

It wasn't 'true labour voters' who put Starmer into No10 - it was those who would otherwise have voted Labour, but voted Tory last time around because they didn't want a government comprising of the likes of MacDonnell and Corbyn. Starmer put down a marker this week in suspending the whip from seven MPs. If Labour MPs start fighting like rats in a sack' it will collapse like a pack of cards.

I think that as a whole, the electorate aren't keen on far left or far right, but are in the middle ground, where Starmer is.

For the moment, he's made the Labour party electable and is on trust to deliver on his promises during this first term. As Blair found over his lies about the 'dodgy dossier and non-existent WMD, and more recently, the shambolic outgoing government found to its cost, trust is like virginity - when it's gone, it's gone. In which case, there won't be a second term. For me, the Tories lost the last election with the Cummings Barnard Castle 'sight test' and 'Partygate'.

Just my view - others may see things differently, which is fine by me.
Most voters dot think that far back.
For me it was:-

HS2 cancelled - so much for leveling up
Truss fiasco
Legging it on D day...
 
How many times does it need to said that it ISN'T "inflation busting" because these groups have had BELOW inflation pay increases for years and years. Restitution back to pre-austerity would be equal to a 35% rise, so at 22% they're STILL behind where they should have been.
FFS junior doctors get £15/hr
Don't apprentices usually get paid significantly less than make significantly more when fully qualified and further upskilling gets you even more?
 
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