Kitchen Cabinets

[ByronBlack]

So, I've ripped half my kitchen out over the weekend. So I now have a nice 9ft worktop and cabs for the workshop - woot!

But, SWMBO being the demanding but lovable creature that she is has demanding I now fix this mess and install some nice shiny new cabinets and solid wood worktops. I also have to fit some wall cabinets where none have currently been.

Basically, I'm after a couple of deciding snippets of info.

Is it cheaper to buy the cabinets or make them myself? I'll need initially 3 x1000m cabs for the wall mounted section, and probably about the same for floor-mounted. If its cheaper/better to buy in who's a good supplier? Wickes and B&Q seem very expensive.

Even if I buy the cabinets, is it possible to buy these without doors? Basically, I need to make my own as we are looking at buying a Wickes's 'Take away' kitchen whilst they have 50% off, but they only supply 8 cabs with the kit and no seperate doors, so i'll need to make my own for the extra cabs I need to make.

Finally, the doors. I'll be making copies of the Wickes 'Edmonton' range which is vertical paneled doors. Is it best/affordable to do this in solid wood, or should I cheat and route grooves in MDF slabs to simulate the paneled look?

 

[Ratter]

I'm in a similar position myself and posted a thread about this a month ago.

Basically Scrit convinced me that making your own units was a mug's game because of the sheet size and weight of MFC and the time and trouble needed to cut cleanly and edge each piece.

B&Q cabinets ARE available without doors and their Select range seem quite good quality and have woodgrained finish. Not the cheapest but 33 - 50% off until end of May.

Scrit also recommended Woodfit over in darkest Lancashire and their cabinets look good but they don't price them online and I haven't got around to emailing for a quote yet. I'm not convinced that such firms are that much cheaper unless you qualify for trade rates but I would recommend their (free) catalogue which is a mine of useful information.

I personally would never buy with doors because ranges change frequently and matching at a later date becomes impossible and anyway making doors is the fun part. If you route the grooves in MDF, I would say you really need to paint them afterwards although some of the cheaper ranges are like this but IMHO look just that, cheap.

But I guess the factors are:-

How large is your budget?
How large is your kitchen?
How long SWMBO can wait?

A final thought is having seen how much you can spend on other fittings, worktops etc, the difference in cost between a cheap and not so cheap unit pales into insignificance.

And if it makes you feel any better, a month after starting my kitchen I am still sorting old plumbing and electrics and rebuilding a stud wall which had several different levels and BT trunking in it for the wiring.

 

[Scrit]

Is it cheaper to buy the cabinets or make them myself? I'll need initially 3 x1000m cabs for the wall mounted section, and probably about the same for floor-mounted. If its cheaper/better to buy in who's a good supplier? Wickes and B&Q seem very expensive.

It all depends on whether you regard your time/back/patience as having any value, I suppose :wink:

I'm in a similar position myself and posted a thread about this a month ago.

Basically Scrit convinced me that making your own units was a mug's game because of the sheet size and weight of MFC and the time and trouble needed to cut cleanly and edge each piece.

That's right, blame me! :wink: ....all I did was to present the facts, honest guvnor.

And if it makes you feel any better, a month after starting my kitchen I am still sorting old plumbing and electrics and rebuilding a stud wall which had several different levels and BT trunking in it for the wiring.

You can survive washing-up in the bath for only so long. I've seen near divorces over this a few times, so I'd say get the sink and drainer, taps, etc. in ASAP because otherwise all hell might break out. Or is it just that you've done a "season ticket" deal with the local Chinese take-away and you're determined to try everything on the menu...... :twisted:

Even if I buy the cabinets, is it possible to buy these without doors? Basically, I need to make my own as we are looking at buying a Wickes's 'Take away' kitchen whilst they have 50% off, but they only supply 8 cabs with the kit and no seperate doors, so i'll need to make my own for the extra cabs I need to make.

There's no need to buy all the cabs at once or even from the same place, although it is a bit more consistent that way...... I'd still suggest buying the cabs and making your doors.

Finally, the doors. I'll be making copies of the Wickes 'Edmonton' range which is vertical paneled doors. Is it best/affordable to do this in solid wood, or should I cheat and route grooves in MDF slabs to simulate the paneled look?

It isn't cheating! Personally I can't see the point in making a solid wood door then painting it - three times the material cost, twice the labour and because real wood moves probably won't look as good after 5 years, and in any case under a coat of paint, who'll know? (or even care?).......

There you are, as ever a completely unbiased opinion....... :roll: :wink:

Scrit

 

[jasonB]

From the Wickes kitchens that I have fitted I seem to recall that they have 735mm tall carcases where most other makers have 720 carcases, just watch out if using two sources.

I have got a pricelist for the Woodfit carcases eg a 500 base unit in standard white is £36.06, colour match £40.44 and premium 48.97 all +VAT at trade.

Jason

 

[Scrit]

From the Wickes kitchens that I have fitted I seem to recall that they have 735mm tall carcases where most other makers have 720 carcases, just watch out if using two sources.

Sure enough, especially if they're IKEA ones! I forgot to mention that it would be a good idea to check that standard/your choice of built-in appliances actually fit

Scrit

 

[Freetochat]

I went through this process last year, and made my own cabinets. I used a board supplier that cut the sheets down to cabinet width sizes for me, and edged the MDC. All I had to do was cut to length groove and assemble. In my view, my cabinets are stronger then the ones I took out, or that I could buy. Put in an 18mm back instead of hardboard etc. The final point was to make the cabinets to fit, without resorting to fillers which I would have done if I had bought standard sizes. As to price, very little in it. But it was for myself, so a few extra pounds is not an issue compared to a commercial decision.

 

[Dave S]

So, I've ripped half my kitchen out over the weekend. So I now have a nice 9ft worktop and cabs for the workshop - woot!

But, SWMBO being the demanding but lovable creature that she is has demanding I now fix this mess and install some nice shiny new cabinets and solid wood worktops. I also have to fit some wall cabinets where none have currently been.

Good grief! Nothing like planning before you start!!! :shock:

I've used the B&Q stuff before and it seems pretty solid to me. It uses wooden dowels plus cam&dowel fittings. I've always used some polyurethane glue as well. They use white hardboard for the back as standard - what I have done is put a thicker back in to improve the rigidity. I've made my own doors and trim as that's what you see. Once you open the door you just want something that's strong and easy to clean. IMO at least.

I have also made my own cabinets. I'm aware that you have a Festool so cutting sheet goods should be easier for you then for me. However, I personally would shy away from making my own cabinets again unless the standard modules just didn't come in the sizes I needed. I'd always make the doors, though.

Whatever you choose, though, as Scrit says, you need to get cracking!

Dave

 

[Jake]

Those Woodfit prices are about the same as the company I'm going to use as soon as the damn builders are finished. They're here http://frontlinecabinets.co.uk/home/homeset.htm. 18mm backs, fully glued and doweled, and best of all, the sizes are just defaults - you can alter any dimension to suit for no extra cost (well, I assume you pay for the nearest size up or something).

 

[Scrit]

I used a board supplier that cut the sheets down to cabinet width sizes for me, and edged the MDC.

We have a supplier up in Oldham/Sheffield who does that - for anyone in the area they're called Hills Panel Products.

In my view, my cabinets are stronger then the ones I took out, or that I could buy. Put in an 18mm back instead of hardboard etc. The final point was to make the cabinets to fit, without resorting to fillers

Some cabinetmakers now supply solid 18mm back panels, but there's no reason why you couldn't fit your own braces, or for that matter cut down a standard size to a special - I've done that before now and it was still a lot faster than building from scratch. I am curious how yours were stronger than any you could buy, though. About the strongest bought-in carcasses I've ever seen/used were the Howdens carcasses - 18mm solid backs, glue and dowel construction and supplied ready assembled, also all the edgings were PVC, including the ones at the rear/undersides and did you know some firms are now doing 2mm or 3mm edgings for extra life? But for me the biggest plus of a pre-machined carcass is having someone else cope with drilling for the shelves, wirework and hinge plates.

I'm not trying to knock what you did, just trying to point out that there is a huge variation in specification of carcasses between suppliers - they ain't all the same

Scrit

 

[Duncan]

Try Howdens will supply cabs on there own - have used many times have a good service and they are not flat pack.

Duncan

 

[lemonjeff]

I went through this process last year, and made my own cabinets. I used a board supplier that cut the sheets down to cabinet width sizes for me, and edged the MDC.

Freetochat who do you use to supply the boards?

Jeff

 

[ByronBlack]

Thanks for all the input!

After measuring up and then looking at the wickes stuff, I've come to the decision to get all the cabs from wickes and strengthen the backs myself. I'll use the doors they provide in their 'take away' package, but will make replica doors for the odd-sized cabs that i'll need to make to fit in a couple of corners and to cover the boiler.

It works out about £800 all in for the cabs, doors, shelves and custom units (mostly small open shelved end units).

I've decided to go for an Iroko worktop and i'll most probably do these myself. I need to make about 8metres worth of worktop and will use 2" rough sawn boards where i'll rip in to 100mm planks and edge-joint together to make up the full width.

I've been given a quote of £26+vat for a cubic foot of Iroko (2" rough) - does that seem a reasonable price? I'm finding it hard to work out how much the worktops will come to using that figure. Does anyone know how to convert cubic foot to board-feet or something easier to work with?

 

[Jake]

1 cubic foot = 12 feet of 12" x 1" timber (= 12 board feet), or 6 feet of 6" x 2" timber, or 9 feet of 4" x 2" timber.

 

[Jake]

Or, even easier

... without wastage (apart from the 30mm or so, depending on your desired worktop width)

 

[Scrit]

I need to make about 8metres worth of worktop and will use 2" rough sawn boards where I'll rip in to 100mm planks and edge-joint together to make up the full width.

Just make sure that your dust extraction is very, very good. Iroko generates a lot of very fine peppery dust which is unpleasant to breathe. Some people also exhibit a sensitivity or mild allergy to it.

I've been given a quote of £26+vat for a cubic foot of Iroko (2" rough) - does that seem a reasonable price?

Yes

Scrit

 

[Freetochat]

I went through this process last year, and made my own cabinets. I used a board supplier that cut the sheets down to cabinet width sizes for me, and edged the MDC.

Freetochat who do you use to supply the boards?

Jeff

I use Ipswich Plastics in Ipswich. I believe they deliver to your town!

 

[Freetochat]

I'm not trying to knock what you did, just trying to point out that there is a huge variation in specification of carcasses between suppliers - they ain't all the same

Scrit

You are of course correct. My experience is based on B&Q, MFI, Magnet and one other (can't remember the name).

There was another decision point, in that I didn't find a lot of choice in colours, whereas the boards come in a large colour range.

 

[ByronBlack]

Whats the best way to finish the worktop? I was thinking of numerous coats of danish oil, but is there a better more robust option?

And finally, what should be my process of making these from getting the wood from the supplier as rough boards?

My initial thoughts were:

- Cut to just over length
- Rip into 100mm strips
- Run through jointer on 2 edges
- Leave in stick for a week or so
- Thickness to just over final thickness
- Glue up into final width panels
- Smooth to final thickness
- Apply Finish.

Does that sound about right, or are there better ways of doing things to avoid any cupping/bowing etc... or maybe something i've left out?

Oh, and finally. I was thinking of using an adjustable finger-joint router bit to help add strength to the edge-to-edge join, is that a good idea or unnessacary?

 

[Shultzy]

1 cubic foot = 12 feet of 12" x 1" timber (= 12 board feet), or 6 feet of 6" x 2" timber, or 9 feet of 4" x 2" timber.

Jake that second and third answers (6 feet of 6" x 2" timber, 9 feet of 4" x 2" timber) are only 1/2 cubic foot it should be 12 feet of 6" x 2" timber and 18 feet of 4" x 2" timber as the formula is (L"xW"xT")/144 = board feet, or (L"xW"xT")/1728 in cubic feet.

 

[Jake]

You are quite right, brainfart on my part.