Keir Starmer

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So: 20 years after settling in Britain, one in 12 have not bothered to learn the language.

And, of those who do arrive not speaking English, barely half learn it during that time period.
Not really sure what your point is - unless it is some sort of anti-immigrant, possibly racist slur.

If you look further in the Migration Observatory report you will note that it is predominantly the older generation who at immigration had no or limited English - 39% of those age 50+ compared to less than 7% below the age of 25.

No real surprise granny may not speak English - and may struggle to do so even after living here many years.

The Spanish comparator - from a survey in 2011 (although I doubt much has changed):

A EuroWeekly News article reported that many British expats in Spain speak no more than 10 Spanish words per week. A survey of British migrants in Málaga found that 60% did not speak Spanish well.

Many, possibly most Brits retiring to the sun are retirees and those 50+ who have accumulated sufficient to retire early. If anything they are less adequate than the older UK immigrant.
 
Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse, Starmer's Transport Minister Louise Haigh has upset DP World ( parent company of P & O) by calling them cowboys putting their £1 billion investment in the UK in jeopardy. Starmer has been made to grovel just to mend the fences his minions have damaged.

The clown Haigh had called for a boycott of DP World over the sackings of 800 workers of P&O worker a couple of years ago. This is also to do with Rayner's planned worker's rights legislation.
These are supposed to be intelligent people though looking at her and her behaviour the jury is definitely out on that one.
The sooner this lot are shown the door the better it will be for the UK
Yes the Tories were bad but not in the same street as this lot and over the past 14 years arguably the Tories had the outcome of the 2008 financial crash and recession to deal with when the Coalition took over in 2010 then when things were beginning to pick up they had the Covid crisis and recession to deal with which was then followed by a partial third recession resulting from the war in Ukraine.

Thank goodness that Starmer et al weren't in power during that period otherwise I dread to think what the state of the country would have been right now..
They would struggle to run a bath let alone the country and its economy...they are clueless.
 
Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse, Starmer's Transport Minister Louise Haigh has upset DP World ( parent company of P & O) by calling them cowboys putting their £1 billion investment in the UK in jeopardy. Starmer has been made to grovel just to mend the fences his minions have damaged.

The clown Haigh had called for a boycott of DP World over the sackings of 800 workers of P&O worker a couple of years ago. This is also to do with Rayner's planned worker's rights legislation.
These are supposed to be intelligent people though looking at her and her behaviour the jury is definitely out on that one.
The sooner this lot are shown the door the better it will be for the UK
Yes the Tories were bad but not in the same street as this lot and over the past 14 years arguably the Tories had the outcome of the 2008 financial crash and recession to deal with when the Coalition took over in 2010 then when things were beginning to pick up they had the Covid crisis and recession to deal with which was then followed by a partial third recession resulting from the war in Ukraine.

Thank goodness that Starmer et al weren't in power during that period otherwise I dread to think what the state of the country would have been right now..
They would struggle to run a bath let alone the country and its economy...they are clueless.
So you're not too keen on our government standing up for our workers' legal rights?

'The British government [in 2022] criticised the company's actions and stated that it was looking at the legal ramifications, including whether P&O could be fined, and how other contracts it held with DP World were affected. The legal community was generally critical of P&O for seemingly ignoring UK employment law, and several law firms commented on the likelihood of any crew members' potential employment tribunal claim being successful on a number of grounds.'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P&O_dismissal_controversy

'Cowboys' doesn't do it justice. Both Parties' criticisms of P&O are justified, we don't need those kinds of practices in the UK.
 
:ROFLMAO: Sounds very civilised! They seem to be doing well on it and our occasional holidays in France are always a pleasure. Almost everything is better quality and value than the UK equivalent.
You have no idea, try living there, the costs are at least three times more expensive to get anything done on or in your house or garden, the only thing cheaper in France is wine and food, everything else is at least two or three times more expansive, all caused by the draconian employment laws, simple to prove looking at the dates they were implemented and the real inflation rates of France, not the massaged rates given out by the French Government which are always based on food costs and not the real cost of living.

Did you know that the most dangerous profession in France is Teaching, being stabbed whilst trying to teach is common place and always by a member of an extreme religion minority.
 
You have no idea, try living there, the costs are at least three times more expensive to get anything done on or in your house or garden, the only thing cheaper in France is wine and food, everything else is at least two or three times more expansive,
Housing is nearly half the UK price, which in terms of cost of living is the biggest single factor, and also the reason for the mass exodus from UK. Seems like half the people I know have houses in France, or had them - things getting difficult after brexit. Living in France is cheaper.
.......Did you know that the most dangerous profession in France is Teaching, being stabbed whilst trying to teach is common place and always by a member of an extreme religion minority.
Well yes they got their ethnic policy wrong by simply denying the issue. Idealistic and well intentioned, but ignoring the reality of their colonial history. Religion is just a detail - post-colonialism is the real issue.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algerian_War
Could take a few generations to settle down to "Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité", considering the slaughter involved in the Algerian war, compared to which the current Palestine scenario (one of our own imperial legacies), is a relatively tiny skirmish.
Unbelievably crass of them to try to ban the burqa and face covering. Unnecessary, pointless, and provocative.
 
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'Cowboys' doesn't do it justice. Both Parties' criticisms of P&O are justified, we don't need those kinds of practices in the UK.
OK then they shouldn't be hypocrites and therefore refuse to accept their £1 billion investment. How does that suit you?
 
You should not quote a program you have made up as a fact, the actual tittle of the program is "Bargain loving Brits in the Sun" and most are OAP's that have moved to a foreign land to enable them to keep warm and eat at a reasonable cost.
I know what the program is called and what it is about, i was being facetious.

But would you then class them as 'economic migrants' ? the type of which the likes of Farage, the daily mail and right wing constantly attack.
A bit like that Charlie Mullins clown. He's on GB news complaining about people coming here and low and behold, he wants to leave the UK and live in another country, purely for economic reasons.
 
Well, P&O are clearly "unscrupulous" and "exploitative" - let them take their business elsewhere.
Unfortunately, the likes of Rayner & Haigh, are behaving like they're still in opposition, when Labour behaved like little more than a tub-thumping "what about the workers - ain't it awful?" protest group. They've not lost any opportunity to trumpet their 'workers' rights package', so the legislation is in place to prevent employers from 'fire & rehire' practices. Hence, any inward investment by any company including DP World, owners of P&O, will need to comply with the new legislation.

An astute, pragmatic politician would know that you can't create a future by raking up the past, and some things are better left unsaid.

Starmer and Reeves are hosting a major summit on Monday, in the hope of attracting £billions of inward investment.

The finger was also pointed at Ms Rayner for her comments in the press release for saying: “What we saw with P&O Ferries was an outrageous example of manipulation by an employer and exactly why we’re taking bold action to improve job security in the UK.”
But it was later suggested that it was Ms Haigh’s threat to boycott the company over future behaviour which triggered the investment to be withdrawn.

Sir Keir then publicly slapped down Ms Haigh (BTW, privately educated at at Sheffield High School - an independent school), in an interview on the BBC’s Newscast podcast with political editor Chris Mason and Adam Fleming. When asked about the boycott comment, Starmer said: “Well, look, that’s not the view of the government.

But that's not the way that it will be seen. For reasons that elude me, Rayner is doing a very senior non-job as Deputy PM, and Haigh is Transport Minister, so they're both members of the cabinet, and their words have weight and consequences. Now the Trade Unions are wading in, so they're all fighting like rats in a sack.

Mr Wrack, the general secretary of the Fire Brigades Union who led the negotiations with Labour on the worker’s rights package, warned Sir Keir that criticism of Ms Haigh was “unacceptable” and he praised her for taking on “rogue employers” like P&O’s parent company DP World.

So he too doesn't want £1bn from a company that would have to comply with new legislation, which in itself hasn't deterred DP World from considering investing? A pragmatic view would be that £1bn of investment and all the jobs it will create for employees on the much-vaunted new employee rights conditions would, and should, be welcome.

DP World’s decision was initially blamed on a press release agreed by Downing Street where Ms Haigh described the ferry company as “cowboy operators” over an infamous decision to fire and rehire 800 employees two years ago. The action outraged MPs across parties and helped shape Labour’s new workers package.

It outraged everyone - heck, I live on the outskirts of Hull, 4 miles from the P&O Ferry terminal, but that was then - this is now.

As to 'fire and rehire', that's what Starmer has done to Sue Gray.

Gave her a job on £170k a year - a higher salary than his own - then she drew up new contracts of only 3 months duration for SPADS, (Special Advisers who are the brains behind the scenes), paying them a third less. Then having sacked Gray, Starmer created a new non-job as 'Envoy to the Regions' but she didn't attend the inaugural meeting of the 'Council of Nations and Regions' in Edinburgh, and apparently wants a 'career break'.

If any of these were in business not politics and were behaving like this, the firm would go bust.

It's not about Labour or Tories - it's about responsible government which they promised we'd get.

Dire.
 
Unbelievably crass of them to try to ban the burqa and face covering. Unnecessary, pointless, but provocative.
Why, seems a sensible decision, goes a long way towards showing respect and integration into French culture etc.
 
OK then they shouldn't be hypocrites and therefore refuse to accept their £1 billion investment. How does that suit you?
Well, it seems P&O are saying they'll now operate within UK laws, so that wouldn't hypocritical. If they won't operate within those laws, they can go elsewhere. Suits me fine.
 
But it was later suggested that it was Ms Haigh’s threat to boycott the company over future behaviour which triggered the investment to be withdrawn.

Sir Keir then publicly slapped down Ms Haigh (BTW, privately educated at at Sheffield High School - an independent school), in an interview on the BBC’s Newscast podcast with political editor Chris Mason and Adam Fleming. When asked about the boycott comment, Starmer said: “Well, look, that’s not the view of the government.
I'm not sure 'slapped down' is the word, just stating it's not the view of govt. But clearly, it is the view of the govt that workers' legal rights be upheld, and that is a good thing for UK workers - unless you disagree? If P&O want to sulk off because of a one-line comment and make their fortunes elsewhere, fine. Some sacrifices have to be made to achieve bigger, more important, long-term goals. How low would we be prepared to stoop to gain investment?

And I'm not sure what Haigh's education has to do with it, but each to their own.
 
Why, seems a sensible decision, goes a long way towards showing respect and integration into French culture etc.
Not if it is enforced by law. Quite the opposite. An insult. Destroys respect and ******* integration.
How on earth could they show respect after 130 years of brutal colonisation? And why?
 
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Amazingly, that applies as much in the UK as in France. But no-one seems to have noticed . . .
But French registered rescue vessels aren't picking up migrants in open water and dropping them off on UK shores (at least, as far as I'm aware)?
 
Unfortunately, the likes of Rayner & Haigh, are behaving like they're still in opposition, when Labour behaved like little more than a tub-thumping "what about the workers - ain't it awful?" protest group. They've not lost any opportunity to trumpet their 'workers' rights package', so the legislation is in place to prevent employers from 'fire & rehire' practices. Hence, any inward investment by any company including DP World, owners of P&O, will need to comply with the new legislation.

An astute, pragmatic politician would know that you can't create a future by raking up the past, and some things are better left unsaid.

Starmer and Reeves are hosting a major summit on Monday, in the hope of attracting £billions of inward investment.

The finger was also pointed at Ms Rayner for her comments in the press release for saying: “What we saw with P&O Ferries was an outrageous example of manipulation by an employer and exactly why we’re taking bold action to improve job security in the UK.”
But it was later suggested that it was Ms Haigh’s threat to boycott the company over future behaviour which triggered the investment to be withdrawn.

Sir Keir then publicly slapped down Ms Haigh (BTW, privately educated at at Sheffield High School - an independent school), in an interview on the BBC’s Newscast podcast with political editor Chris Mason and Adam Fleming. When asked about the boycott comment, Starmer said: “Well, look, that’s not the view of the government.

But that's not the way that it will be seen. For reasons that elude me, Rayner is doing a very senior non-job as Deputy PM, and Haigh is Transport Minister, so they're both members of the cabinet, and their words have weight and consequences. Now the Trade Unions are wading in, so they're all fighting like rats in a sack.

Mr Wrack, the general secretary of the Fire Brigades Union who led the negotiations with Labour on the worker’s rights package, warned Sir Keir that criticism of Ms Haigh was “unacceptable” and he praised her for taking on “rogue employers” like P&O’s parent company DP World.

So he too doesn't want £1bn from a company that would have to comply with new legislation, which in itself hasn't deterred DP World from considering investing? A pragmatic view would be that £1bn of investment and all the jobs it will create for employees on the much-vaunted new employee rights conditions would, and should, be welcome.

DP World’s decision was initially blamed on a press release agreed by Downing Street where Ms Haigh described the ferry company as “cowboy operators” over an infamous decision to fire and rehire 800 employees two years ago. The action outraged MPs across parties and helped shape Labour’s new workers package.

It outraged everyone - heck, I live on the outskirts of Hull, 4 miles from the P&O Ferry terminal, but that was then - this is now.

As to 'fire and rehire', that's what Starmer has done to Sue Gray.

Gave her a job on £170k a year - a higher salary than his own - then she drew up new contracts of only 3 months duration for SPADS, (Special Advisers who are the brains behind the scenes), paying them a third less. Then having sacked Gray, Starmer created a new non-job as 'Envoy to the Regions' but she didn't attend the inaugural meeting of the 'Council of Nations and Regions' in Edinburgh, and apparently wants a 'career break'.

If any of these were in business not politics and were behaving like this, the firm would go bust.

It's not about Labour or Tories - it's about responsible government which they promised we'd get.

Dire.

I agree it was a blunder but did you really think DP were going to walk away?

It feels like a bit of a false dichotomy to present it as a binary choice being made by the unions. Everyone wants the investment to happen, but not at any cost.

My guess is that Starmer will have ensured Haigh has had a “learning opportunity” which is better than playing it out in public. He’s clearly acted quickly to smooth ruffled feathers but perhaps the silver lining is it reminds DP (and their subsidiaries) that we don’t expect them to treat workers badly again.

Starmer has not engaged in the practice of hire and fire as P&O did. He simply moved Gray into a different role.
 
...

A EuroWeekly News article reported that many British expats in Spain speak no more than 10 Spanish words per week. A survey of British migrants in Málaga found that 60% did not speak Spanish well.

..
I could spirit up 9 words and I'm not even an expat!
"un bocadillo con bifstec y una cerveza por favor"
I'm a bit of a linguist.
 
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Where were you, who were they exactly and what particularly horrible things did you personally experience at the hands of these people?

Are we in mourning for something? Nobody tells me anything! :ROFLMAO:
1: In Africa: 8 years, in 29 out of 52 countries in total. In the Near East: all except Saudi Arabia, UAE, Oman and Yemen. In South Asia: all except Bhutan.
Who were they: broadly, the local people. More specifically: politicians and government officials [uncivil servants].

What particularly horrible things did I personally experience? Don't ask. The list would be too long . . . .

2: Are we in mourning? Yes, for the total absence of commonsense or balance.
 
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