Just use the blade guard!

[Cabinetman]

Here's another mad yank. He's going on about the dangers of kick back (real, but usually not serious with small components and small machines) but he's using gripper blocks - which are the cause of the kickback and ALSO very nearly result in a nasty cut - which he blames on the kick back, not the use of grippers. He worked out why he needed a riving knife in place, but hasn't worked out why he should be using push sticks

Absolutely right Jacob, how close his hand came to that blade ! – like he said he needs some new shorts now! Yes those push blocks are bloody dangerous, if he had been using push sticks his hand wouldn’t have been anywhere near and it wouldn’t have been able to move slightly to the left to be picked up by the blade at the back because he was pushing it to the right with his left hand holding the other push stick, also of course as he did say, use a riving knife.

 

[Cabinetman]

I haven’t seen that one Aidan, probably just as well. Sickening, poor kid.

 

[TRITON]

The HSE requires the blade to be guarded at all times including when cutting rebates and grooves etc.

https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/wis16.pdf

Thats for saws with separate guards, not ones where the guard is part of the riving knife.

 

[Doug71]

.Th
This is "guidance" and "should be used" is the operative expression, not "must be used".
In other words you can do what you like but are advised to use their suggestions, or if not to use alternative safety measures along the same lines or better. It mentions alternative guarding if the crown guard is taken off.
Some of their advice is not that good - an inadequate design of push stick and no suggestion of using two - which is probably the single most effective safety measure for TS, planer or spindle. And two drawings show hands on the workpiece where a second push stick should be used.

Here you go Jacob, a HSE poster for your workshop which mentions using 2 push sticks

https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/circular-saw.pdf

 

[Jacob]

Here you go Jacob, a HSE poster for your workshop which mentions using 2 push sticks

https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/circular-saw.pdf

That's better! Maybe they are catching up. They are still using that useless looking design though.

 

[Spectric]

A lot of emphasis is placed on the guard and as I said nothing will protect some people, guard or no guard. I have a set pattern when I use my table saw and always stick to it. First thing is to ensure a clear, tidy work area with nothing around I am likely to trip over. Then I check that what I intend to do can be done, can the wood have free entry into the blade and also exit without fouling on anything. I always use long pushsticks and never allow my hands to get anywhere near that blade. After the cut, turn machine off and again keep well clear until that blade has stoped, there is nothing here apart from common sense and understanding that with man versus spining blade there is only one winner and it's not you. I find it really strange that some people do not seem to have this ability for self preservation, perhaps they are playing to many computer games and think they are invincable.

 

[akirk]

More likely is that all people are different some people are structured and organised - the upside is that they may be safer... others are more fluid and creative and off the cuff- downside might be a higher risk of injury, upside might be higher creativity with wood!

yes, conceptually it is simple and easy - hands at a distance from a spinning blade = lower risk, but then conceptually many other things in life are simple (driving, managing finances, being nice to people etc ) but it is amazing how many people mess up with those things as well... the rich tapestry of life!

 

[Inspector]

You know there is an upside to those that lob off a few fingers. The ones that do it when younger provide a clear visual clue to potential mates that this one isn't good breading stock and will sire throwbacks. Unfortunately the ones that do so later in life have already added to the twit pool and they go on to reach new levels of stupidity.

Pete

 

[TheTiddles]

I saw a carpenters workshop in Rwanda, huge old cast iron machines, no extraction (but plenty of ventilation as there were no walls), open belt drives and petrol engines driving, not a guard in sight.

Not a single person there had all their fingers, including the children, some were missing several.

 

[quintain]

I spent a very enjoyable 30 years in a v busy fire service even when dealing with "things that people never considered would go wrong for them"...."we have always done it this way and this has never happened before..." (smoking in bed and falling asleep-lpg cylinder gas fire left unattended in house-overloading electrical circuits-reading maps while driving- and many many more) if you don't need all the fingers you presently have or indeed if you don't need to live any longer or even perhaps you are simply so kind-hearted that you wish to give employment to medics and a lot of others...just remove the blade guard and realise it isn't if; it is simply when; the unexpected occurs. My apologies to anyone who thinks I am pontificating or even just a smart ***, safety MUST always come first. And yes, some youtube videos are frightening when you realise they are instructing people wishing to learn.

 

[Spectric]

You know there is an upside to those that lob off a few fingers.

There are also others, you cannot loose them twice and now they are missing you have less fingers to worry about.

 

[Tenacity]

Trained as a joiner and machinist about 40 years ago and now coming onto this and other forums is scary. I used to sell and demonstrate Triton 2000 systems, their table saw, router attachment and all the other gear, safety was always there, never liked their idea of tenoning with no blade guard, so didn't demonstrate it but all their stuff had simple but effective push sticks built in to use. That was up to the user. Most missing finger and thumbs I have come across in the trade, "tradesman" who didn't guard up. Usually a case of bad practice or a one off and the accident happened. Once started a new job as a bench hand machinist, first morning there was asked to rip and size timbers on a table saw. Where's the ring knife and guard? says I. Probably under that bench amongst the off cuts. 30 mins later searching nothing "never mind" says he "we need it doing now". Several minutes later "Where the f**k are you going" Home with my tools including fingers and thumbs, he was gob smacked . On the smaller site/ workshop why don't makers agree a standardised size slots fo accessories?

 

[Cabinetman]

I wouldn’t worry about coming on here Tenacity, we value your 40 years experience. Ian

 

[DennisCA]

I don't have a guard installed like that either, I have a riving knife and I use two swan neck push sticks (aka wandel style), has served me well. I wasn't able to see from looking through that video if he had a riving knife or not.

But that and a propensity to put ones fingers near the blade tend to be the main reasons for injuries like that.

 

[jcassidy]

Concentration is finite. I doubt most hobbyists have enough use of a table saw to get through the hours of safe usage required to build up safe working habit and muscle memory. Safety is then dependent on concentration, and when concentration lapses, as it must, 'chop chop chop'...

 

[Spectric]

But that and a propensity to put ones fingers near the blade tend to be the main reasons for injuries like that

Thats bang on, people don't loose fingers because the saw blade decided to attack them, treat that table saw like a wild animal that is not in it's cage.

I doubt most hobbyists have enough use of a table saw to get through the hours of safe usage required to build up safe working habit and muscle memory

There is a downside to having loads of time using a machine, thats complacency. You never want to be over confident and robotic when using any machinery because that is really dangerous and you always expect everything to be as it always has. Always approach a machine with an edge of uneasiness, your body will automatically be more alert and focused, just stop and think how much your life will change if you have a pile of fingers in amongst the saw dust and what things you will no longer be able to do, things like wiping your rear end to picking your nose and lots in between.

 

[Jar944]

I would say that here in the US you might find a riving knife if you walk into the average home shop, but its unlikely you will find a blade gard (installed)

If you think the lack of a blade guard is scary you should see the site carpenters free hand a long scribe cut on a table saw (no fence) or using them to cope a peice of skirting.

Speakign of lack of guarding, This spindle moulder video made me cringe

 

[JohnPW]

Isn't the problem is placing your hands so close to the blade? Even with a guard, you should keep your hands well away from the blade by using 2 push sticks.

 

[Cabinetman]

I would say that here in the US you might find a riving knife if you walk into the average home shop, but its unlikely you will find a blade gard (installed)

If you think the lack of a blade guard is scary you should see the site carpenters free hand a long scribe cut on a table saw (no fence) or using them to cope a peice of skirting.

Speakign of lack of guarding, This spindle moulder video made me cringe

Yes, home-made push block again, he could’ve done that perfectly well with two push sticks "and as long as I keep my fingers away from the orange bit I’m good to go"
Doesn’t anybody use push sticks in America? I suspect they have all been swayed by the advertising for push blocks – not much profit to be made from two bits of wood that anybody can make!

 

[TRITON]

Isn't the problem is placing your hands so close to the blade? Even with a guard, you should keep your hands well away from the blade by using 2 push sticks.

Apparently not for some it would appear. Apparently having a guard on means you can never have an accident

Speakign of lack of guarding, This spindle moulder video made me cringe

yeah, though the moulder is a different beast entirely. its more prone to big kickbacks. Experienced as I am, still doing curved work on it scares the bejesus out of me. I'm like a skittery kid getting it on for the first time.
Even in the YT vids of factories in Indonesia where guards dont appear to ever be fitted, you nearly always see them using a powerfeed for big moulding techniques.