Isle of Man TT TV coverage schedule.

[CHJ]

...To hear those manx nortons growling down the road, and the scream of mike hailwoods MV augusta was magic stuff.
....

To stand in the fields next to the low wall down the straight from Creg-Ny-Baa even with the older bikes and speeds was awesome, the narrowest of gaps between handlebars and wall at times with that sudden shock of sound, smell and turbulence.

 

[Woodchips2]

If you've ever fancied a ride around the TT course try this pillion ride with Guy Martin https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmNXCJt7K3Q. Incredible level of skill and bravery!

Regards Keith

 

[stuartpaul]

Michael Dunlop lap record of 133.393 mph! :shock: :shock: First ever sub 17 minute lap I believe. I nearly filled my underwear just watching them. Incredible stuff indeed.

Shame about the fatalities but I'm afraid that's the TT.

 

[Graham Orm]

Michael Dunlop lap record of 133.393 mph! :shock: :shock: First ever sub 17 minute lap I believe. I nearly filled my underwear just watching them. Incredible stuff indeed.

Shame about the fatalities but I'm afraid that's the TT.

It makes me wonder what the limit is and how far they can stretch the elastic. Dunlop reckons he can do a 135! makes me wish McGuinness would give up. He's got nothing to prove now and will have to take more risks than ever before if he wants the record number of wins. He has 2 kids.

Paul Shoesmith lived half a mile from me. 3 At the TT and one in Moto2 this week. Terrible week for motorcycle racing.

 

[Wuffles]

To lighten it up a bit, not sure if you've seen this yet.

https://youtu.be/_hVQp1Wxl1w

 

[Eric The Viking]

Watched the Supersport last night - the first one I've been able to see. Really good coverage and amazing riding.

 

[Graham Orm]

To lighten it up a bit, not sure if you've seen this yet.

https://youtu.be/_hVQp1Wxl1w

Thanks Wuffles.

Watched the Supersport last night - the first one I've been able to see. Really good coverage and amazing riding.

It makes me wonder just how fast they will go. I can't fathom where they get the extra speed from year after year.

 

[stuartpaul]

Dunlop reckons he can get 135 mph if he pushes a bit harder :shock: :shock:

There must be a circuit limit and they must be close to it surely?

I do also wonder how many fatalities they can stand before public opinion turns against the racing?

 

[Graham Orm]

Dunlop reckons he can get 135 mph if he pushes a bit harder :shock: :shock:

There must be a circuit limit and they must be close to it surely?

I do also wonder how many fatalities they can stand before public opinion turns against the racing?

That's the point I made, how fast can they go until they just can't go any faster? Will the top lads all start crashing trying to reach the 135 or 138 or wherever the limit is?

I remember Mick Grant hitting the 114mph mark and everyone being astounded. Will we still be gaping in another 30 years when it's 165mph??

 

[Wuffles]

Tyre development, greater braking ability and more acceleration will bring higher average speeds in time, not to mention higher top speeds too of course.

 

[Eric The Viking]

Interesting this.

I'm not obsessing about F1, but there was a fascinating "shoot-out" on TV recently, between David Coulthard (with an older F1 Red Bull car) and Guy Martin (on one of his race bikes - can't remember which tho.). They had three 'challenges': a drag race, a slalom and three laps of an actual circuit.

Guy Martin won the slalom easily, but lost the other two. The reason seemed to be simple: the power was there on the bike (power to weight ratio), but it doesn't create enough downforce to apply the power effectively enough. This matters particularly in corners, where anything with aerofoil downforce can get better drive out of a corner (assuming it's a fast enough corner for downforce to happen, obviously). In the drag race, once the front wheel lifts you're at maximum possible torque at the back wheel and can do little more to increase the speed. Guy moved his weight backwards, but beyond a certain point that becomes counterproductive as the front end just lifts more.

It strikes me that if the regs allow more downforce-generating fairings, that may allow higher straight-ish line speed, but as Wuffles says, you still have to stop the thing and get it round corners safely, and obviously on a bike the one thing you cannot do is generate useful downforce when cornering - straight-line downforce might even be counterproductive whilst cornering.

I have a horrible feeling that the average may yet reach 135mph (if McGuinness gets the right steed), but the sport will become even more dangerous. Personally, I hope McGuinness decides to retire soon -- he's a family man now and has nothing to prove to anyone.

E.

 

[Racers]

It wasn't exactly fair the bike was a sports bike a modified road bike not a GP bike.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6v_irI6U_8

Pete

 

[Wuffles]

Just to clarify, you mean increased downforce for acceleration right? I think that's what you're getting at but it read funny to me.

You don't need it for top end particularly, well, obviously you do, but not any more than is there now. Hitting 180mph+ on a road bike with a standard fairing is no problem* but it's the getting there in the lower gear(s) that needs more time than the engine requires.

*Spain for example, where the police will egg you on to do it - as everyone knows a Spaniard is born to the sound of a rev limiter being bounced about on a super bike.

 

[Wuffles]

Fifth Gear did a thing years ago, with a bike, vs, F1, vs boat (I know, slow clap) but it was just Honda being Honda - we're everywhere. Demonstrates the downforce issue for F1 cars nicely on the drag runs.

https://youtu.be/h8OR-c57SMU?t=405

 

[stuartpaul]

........... It strikes me that if the regs allow more downforce-generating fairings, that may allow higher straight-ish line speed, but as Wuffles says, you still have to stop the thing and get it round corners safely, and obviously on a bike the one thing you cannot do is generate useful downforce when cornering - straight-line downforce might even be counterproductive whilst cornering.

I have a horrible feeling that the average may yet reach 135mph (if McGuinness gets the right steed), but the sport will become even more dangerous. Personally, I hope McGuinness decides to retire soon -- he's a family man now and has nothing to prove to anyone.

E.

Eric,

My understanding is that the FIM are actually in the process of changing the regs to prevent this. Fairing winglets have started to appear in Moto GP and there must be some form of performance advantage otherwise they wouldn't put the money into the development.

Don't know if this will affect the TT or do they not follow FIM rules?

'Crasher' Crutchlow reckons they're unsafe due to possible damage to riders catching them and being sliced open. He also says that they create more dirty air so such bikes are more difficult to follow closely.

I think Dunlop will do 135 before McGuinness!

 

[Eric The Viking]

Just to clarify, you mean increased downforce for acceleration right? I think that's what you're getting at but it read funny to me.

You don't need it for top end particularly, well, obviously you do, but not any more than is there now. Hitting 180mph+ on a road bike with a standard fairing is no problem* but it's the getting there in the lower gear(s) that needs more time than the engine requires.

*Spain for example, where the police will egg you on to do it - as everyone knows a Spaniard is born to the sound of a rev limiter being bounced about on a super bike.

Sorry - tying to type on a tablet, before coffee! Now at my desk...

I meant both, in different ways. As you say, accelerating you can't get the power down as well on a bike as with a car (showed up in the drag race), and on a track there was enough additional downforce and grip for the car to be a lot faster in the corners (even slow corners). In the slalom, the F1 car was below the speed where the aerodynamics contributed anything useful, and Guy could weave much more effectively. I'm assuming there's no easy way to add cornering downforce to with a racing bike, for all sorts of reasons.

It's a pretty poor comparison, I know, but I've got a classic R80RT. You may remember BMW made a big fuss when the shape was launched, about the thing having been extensively wind tunnel tested. I'm pretty certain it's intended to create downforce to help stabilize the front end. In a straight line that's fine - it works after a fashion, but in any sort of crosswind, the thing can be truly terrifying. I've taken it across the old Severn bridge a few times, on normal summer days, with windspeeds well below what they consider 'danger' levels. Frankly it's really frightening. You get oscillations and everything. At any speed above 60, the wind is effectively coming at a 20-30 deg. angle, and all the aerodynamics go nasty.

Do you remember those horrible squared-off back tyres you used to be able to get? Back in the 1970s I had a CB175 that came to me with one fitted. Going up on the corner of the tyre was frankly scary (think of the roads round your way, where I grew up!). I put Avons on it and it improved hugely. My point, only that the square tyre used to exaggerate the effect of losing grip in corners. I've never ridden a bike anywhere near the edge of its performance really, but I have come off on corners and I can see how suddenly cornering can change from being fast to not happening.

FWIW, Toto Wolff was interviewed briefly on Tuesday - he was at the Supersport race, I think. He was evidently staggered at the skill and bravery on show. I like F1, but there's no contest when it comes to sheer courage and skill.

E.

 

[Wuffles]

Just to clarify, you mean increased downforce for acceleration right? I think that's what you're getting at but it read funny to me.

You don't need it for top end particularly, well, obviously you do, but not any more than is there now. Hitting 180mph+ on a road bike with a standard fairing is no problem* but it's the getting there in the lower gear(s) that needs more time than the engine requires.

*Spain for example, where the police will egg you on to do it - as everyone knows a Spaniard is born to the sound of a rev limiter being bounced about on a super bike.

Sorry - tying to type on a tablet, before coffee! Now at my desk...

I meant both, in different ways. As you say, accelerating you can't get the power down as well on a bike as with a car (showed up in the drag race), and on a track there was enough additional downforce and grip for the car to be a lot faster in the corners (even slow corners). In the slalom, the F1 car was below the speed where the aerodynamics contributed anything useful, and Guy could weave much more effectively. I'm assuming there's no easy way to add cornering downforce to with a racing bike, for all sorts of reasons.

It's a pretty poor comparison, I know, but I've got a classic R80RT. You may remember BMW made a big fuss when the shape was launched, about the thing having been extensively wind tunnel tested. I'm pretty certain it's intended to create downforce to help stabilize the front end. In a straight line that's fine - it works after a fashion, but in any sort of crosswind, the thing can be truly terrifying. I've taken it across the old Severn bridge a few times, on normal summer days, with windspeeds well below what they consider 'danger' levels. Frankly it's really frightening. You get oscillations and everything. At any speed above 60, the wind is effectively coming at a 20-30 deg. angle, and all the aerodynamics go nasty.

Do you remember those horrible squared-off back tyres you used to be able to get? Back in the 1970s I had a CB175 that came to me with one fitted. Going up on the corner of the tyre was frankly scary (think of the roads round your way, where I grew up!). I put Avons on it and it improved hugely. My point, only that the square tyre used to exaggerate the effect of losing grip in corners. I've never ridden a bike anywhere near the edge of its performance really, but I have come off on corners and I can see how suddenly cornering can change from being fast to not happening.

FWIW, Toto Wolff was interviewed briefly on Tuesday - he was at the Supersport race, I think. He was evidently staggered at the skill and bravery on show. I like F1, but there's no contest when it comes to sheer courage and skill.

E.

Ah yes, the Severn Bridges. 45 degree riding, until you go past a truck, bolt upright, then back to 45 degrees. I wish GoPro cameras were around when I used to commute over the bridge on an RSVR it'd make an interesting video.

I think the only thing that can improve cornering will be better rubber. There's some kind of force involved with cornering at speed and it's not centrifugal, but it's something like that. Someone will now.

Getting stopped before the corner and then getting the power down after the corner will be what makes the lap times go up though.

 

[Graham Orm]

Interesting this.

I'm not obsessing about F1, but there was a fascinating "shoot-out" on TV recently, between David Coulthard (with an older F1 Red Bull car) and Guy Martin (on one of his race bikes - can't remember which tho.). They had three 'challenges': a drag race, a slalom and three laps of an actual circuit.

Guy Martin won the slalom easily, but lost the other two. The reason seemed to be simple: the power was there on the bike (power to weight ratio), but it doesn't create enough downforce to apply the power effectively enough. This matters particularly in corners, where anything with aerofoil downforce can get better drive out of a corner (assuming it's a fast enough corner for downforce to happen, obviously). In the drag race, once the front wheel lifts you're at maximum possible torque at the back wheel and can do little more to increase the speed. Guy moved his weight backwards, but beyond a certain point that becomes counterproductive as the front end just lifts more.

It strikes me that if the regs allow more downforce-generating fairings, that may allow higher straight-ish line speed, but as Wuffles says, you still have to stop the thing and get it round corners safely, and obviously on a bike the one thing you cannot do is generate useful downforce when cornering - straight-line downforce might even be counterproductive whilst cornering.

I have a horrible feeling that the average may yet reach 135mph (if McGuinness gets the right steed), but the sport will become even more dangerous. Personally, I hope McGuinness decides to retire soon -- he's a family man now and has nothing to prove to anyone.

E.

These wings are a new relatively new idea, Ducati started using them last year and Yamaha and Honda have joined them this year. There is to be a decision made later in the year as to how big they can be and how many they can use. They reckon it does make a difference when cornering and keeps the front planted, It also gives stability on the straights, but if the front wheel lifts slightly and the air gets underneath them, you have a problem.

Before anyone corrects me. Barry Sheene used a smaller version 30 years ago.

Eric the bike that Guy used was a superbike. A road bike with a few grands worth of mods. A GP bike is a different concept, more like an F1 with cutting edge technology. I always liken Superbikes to touring cars for those not familiar. He would use the back brake to keep the front wheel down and still be able to use maximum power, however still a balancing act between the two.

 

[Eric The Viking]

Getting stopped before the corner and then getting the power down after the corner will be what makes the lap times go up though.

Quite agree. Used to do that Karting, too.

 

[Eric The Viking]

...These wings are a new relatively new idea, Ducati started using them last year and Yamaha and Honda have joined them this year. There is to be a decision made later in the year as to how big they can be and how many they can use. They reckon it does make a difference when cornering and keeps the front planted, It also gives stability on the straights, but if the front wheel lifts slightly and the air gets underneath them, you have a problem.

Before anyone corrects me. Barry Sheene used a smaller version 30 years ago.

Eric the bike that Guy used was a superbike. A road bike with a few grands worth of mods. A GP bike is a different concept, more like an F1 with cutting edge technology. I always liken Superbikes to touring cars for those not familiar. He would use the back brake to keep the front wheel down and still be able to use maximum power, however still a balancing act between the two.

I only ever use the back brake for things like turns in the road. Sounds bloomin terrifying. I'll stick to my old airhead -- 65 BHP of best German tractor engineering!

The wings look fascinating, and I can understand they would improve straight line stability, but I'm not sure about cornering - wouldn't the forces on the two sides of the forks/bike net out?