Interesting pieces of furniture - 1

[Shivers]

Well, last poke into this thread for a while...

Shivers wrote:
.....the shakers made the stuff by hand cos the didn't have routers ---

Arguably in the US it was a Shaker who introduced the concept of a table saw. They had many, many powered tools. Just not electrical. Most/many were line shaft or belt driven from a waterwheel power source. They had surface planers, bandsaws, and sawmills etc.

Their methods of work as regards the blend of powered tools and hand tools is not too much different than the choices we all make.

I think this piece--regardless of its price--needs to be taken within the historicity of the Shakers. They eschewed outward ornamentation. It is often only once the piece is opened than much can be seen concerning things often pleasing to the eye.

For instance, often a rasied panel is turned inward. Only upon opening the door would you "know" it was a raised panel. Plainer woods were most often chosen. Simply outward design that on many pieces have subtleties to them. These design considerations were driven by their religious and communal beliefs.

So a question is, if one decides to make reproduction pieces, how much latitude does one feel they have to change an overall aesthetic?

Take care, Mike

I did learn about the shakers introducing machinery,--but since the info & time line is vauge,(I have also heard of chippendale having circular saws) ileft that tidbit out,the shakers are also credited with the morticing machine.
I also know of the careful craftsmanship applied to thier methods too,
in essence i dont have a problem with the guy making a good profit at all --but taking 6 weeks to make an item like this is lunacy,the guy finds himself in a good position fair enough--but who he's selling to are the art gallery type whom move in circles that the average customer does not,if the guy was that creative--why not have his own line of designs rather than 'borrowed' designs.
People on here have mentioned that i'm green with envy--which for me is a bit of a laugh--i couldn't think of a duller thing to do with your own business than to create a range based upon something you borrowed,

In hindsight i guess i've brought business politics into this thread as i don't just judge a piece by it's pure design value,there has to be efficency & economy as well,in my opinion this guy overindulges in time,which for many reasons he has the privledge to so do.

regards shivers.

 

[Anonymous]

Couple of points...

Firstly, hats off to this Becksvoort bloke! He has managed to achieve what I imagine most of the pros and half the hobbyists here would love to.

He earns a very nice living pottering around on his own in a well equipped workshop by his home in a lovely rural setting. Through his undoubted skill both as a cabinet maker and as a marketing man he has successfully persuaded sufficient numbers of wealthy people to part with huge amounts of money for the fruits of his labours. I, for one, salute him as an inspiration and as an example to us all of what is possible.

Secondly, the chest of drawers which Tony presented to us as a discussion piece.

I woke up this morning knowing exactly what it is about it that I don't like!

1. The shaped cut-out at the base is bloody ugly and amateurish. A more graceful curve would transform the whole piece. I don't give a fig about whether this is an authentically Shaker detail - to me it just looks plain wrong! It looks like he's drawn the shape with a can of filler and a rule.

2. I would have had the top overhanging the sides by a good 2" on each side. For me, this would balance up the proportions nicely, and give a more 'finished' look. As it is, I don't think it looks like he's put the top on yet!

This is just my view - and I know that it won't go down well with some of Mr Becksvoort's more adoring fans.

A few of us though, are beginning to feel like the little boy in the story of 'The Emporer's New Clothes'! :lol:

Cheers
Brad

 

[Good Surname or what ?]

Shivers,

6 weeks? That only comes from your back calculation at $50/hour. Becksvoort makes around 40 pieces a year. Either this is exceptionally long and complicated or your maths are screwed.

The truth is the guy takes much less time but charges more $/hour. Let's assume an average piece sells for $5000. Thats $200K/year.

You may not like the design but you can't knock the business model.

Phil

 

[Anonymous]

If its drawers your after, I think this has better looks, don't know who made it but he must be exceptionally talented, good looking and stylish :lol: 8)

 

[Good Surname or what ?]

certainly wasn't made by a junior :lol:

 

[Anonymous]

Shivers old chap,

In one of your early posts you were bemoaning the fact that you were finding it difficult to make a good living as a woodworker and that your work was undervalued by the public.

In this thread you appear to begrudge Mr Becksvoort his good living as a woodwoorker and consider his work to be overvalued!

It is beginning to sound ever so slightly like sour grapes.

I would have thought that Becksvoort and his ilk should be lauded as the more of them that there are around then the more opportunities will lie in store for mere mortals such as you and I, as the public's perception of the value of quality cabinetmaking will increase.

Cheers
Brad

 

[Anonymous]

Can someone tell me how to delete a post that you've posted twice by mistake!

Cheers
Brad

 

[promhandicam]

Any more photos senior? What is the top made of? Are the draws of equal width 'cos they look narrower in the middle? What wood is it made from? How many dovetails and how many $ :wink: :wink: :lol:

Steve (getting his proverbial coat on)

 

[wizer]

Senior, that is a much nicer piece and would be worth much more to me than the first. You can see the value in that, whereas it is harder to see in the first.

 

[Shivers]

Sorry everyone i keep forgetting i'm on a hobbiest forum --& discussing prices,efficency,economics isn't allowed here,cos you have to just get lost in the romance of it all,

shivers

 

[spadge]

Sorry everyone i keep forgetting i'm on a hobbiest forum --& discussing prices,efficency,economics isn't allowed here,cos you have to just get lost in the romance of it all,

shivers

Becksvoort is not a hoobbiest, neither are you.
He appears to make a better living than you. Don't you think there might be something you could learn from his approach and his pricing?

 

[Alf]

Sorry everyone i keep forgetting i'm on a hobbiest forum --& discussing prices,efficency,economics isn't allowed here,cos you have to just get lost in the romance of it all,

Oh don't talk rot - there's plenty of threads on the topic, just don't think this is really the point of this one. Didn't you hear the one about the man who knew the price of everything and the value of nothing...?

Cheers, Alf

 

[Shivers]

Sorry everyone i keep forgetting i'm on a hobbiest forum --& discussing prices,efficency,economics isn't allowed here,cos you have to just get lost in the romance of it all,

shivers

Becksvoort is not a hoobbiest, neither are you.
He appears to make a better living than you. Don't you think there might be something you could learn from his approach and his pricing?

To tell you the truth i should really be posting on here,--i've already done what becksvoort is doing to some degree--& to tell you the truth,money aside i wouldn't want to do it again,dealing with fussy art gallery owners/goers,fickle customers & nutty interior designers. Theres nothing wrong with the furniture he makes,apart from he's passing it off as sentimental art & hence overpricing it,it's a farce that draws in clueless customers.

The value factor is based more on sentimentality rather than craftsmanship--thers no economy mixed in the pieces he makes --he's in the right area to suck in the rich newyork idiots.

 

[Roger]

The value factor is based more on sentimentality rather than craftsmanship--there's no economy mixed in the pieces he makes --he's in the right area to suck in the rich New York idiots

The man is a talented craftsman, with obvious skills in both Furniture making and business. There are several examples in the U.K. and if their reputations and skills justify the price well enough to bring in customers who you dismiss as 'rich idiots', then all strength to them.

In my experience, clients with money take a lot of care, where and on what they spend it.

 

[Shivers]

The value factor is based more on sentimentality rather than craftsmanship--there's no economy mixed in the pieces he makes --he's in the right area to suck in the rich New York idiots

The man is a talented craftsman, with obvious skills in both Furniture making and business. There are several examples in the U.K. and if their reputations and skills justify the price well enough to bring in customers who you dismiss as 'rich idiots', then all strength to them.

In my experience, clients with money take a lot of care, where and on what they spend it.

Fair enough ---but in my view it falls within the realms of knock off repro's,
which if the customers did actually know anything--they would purchase something a bit more dated & authentic.

How about a nice music stand at a mere $2,650 --it's got all of $2.99 worth of wood in it.
these kind of customers must be everywhere!

 

[ike]

Fair play to Becksvoort, indeed any artisan who can make a good living from their customers. But if you think he is overpriced, where does that place the likes of Tracy Emin or (in some examples) Damien Hirst in the grand scheme of things?

Ike

 

[Roger]

Paraphrasing Alf - it's value - not price. If it's unique, beautifully made and finished and sells at that price to someone who wants it ......... You can't dissect a piece of hand crafted furniture down to the cost of the wood for heaven's sake!

 

[Shivers]

Fair play to Becksvoort, indeed any artisan who can make a good living from their customers. But if you think he is passing off tat, where does that place the likes of Tracy Emin or (in some examples) Damien Hirst in the grand scheme of things?

Ike

I'm not saying it's tat at all ,& i agree with your comment on whats her face(emin),this is part of my argument,if you ever get a chance to have a look the 'NEW YORKER' magazine --you'll see plenty of Becksvoort's types advertising in there aimed at the fashionable set whom buy the names,cos that's what their social circle demands.
Kudo's to becksvoort for his business noggin,--but what he's doing furniture wise is nothing unique or special at all,& for that fact it's vastly overpriced in my opinion.


shivers

 

[StevieB]

Actually I quite like that music stand. Not saying I would be able to afford it, and from looking at it I am not sure it would stand up to the rigours of daily use. I like it aesthetically though, its very pleasing on the eye in my opinion.

Steve.

 

[Adam]

Secondly, the chest of drawers which Tony presented to us as a discussion piece.

I woke up this morning knowing exactly what it is about it that I don't like!

1. The shaped cut-out at the base is bloody ugly and amateurish. A more graceful curve would transform the whole piece. I don't give a fig about whether this is an authentically Shaker detail - to me it just looks plain wrong! It looks like he's drawn the shape with a can of filler and a rule.

2. I would have had the top overhanging the sides by a good 2" on each side. For me, this would balance up the proportions nicely, and give a more 'finished' look. As it is, I don't think it looks like he's put the top on yet!

Cheers Brad

See thats more like it. Putting price aside for a moment, given it has no bearing to actual look of the thing. I've been and had a second look and agree, the cutout on the base does look out of place. It could be much more elegant.

If I personally was in a position to order a piece of furniture like that, I would specify a different base for sure.

Adam