Interesting pieces of furniture - 1

[spadge]

I think it is a lovely piece. It has a classic, timeless elegance.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

Totally agree, but I think it's interesting what floats peoples boat.

To me some of the Waywood stuff, whilst undoubtedly well made looks over fussy and contrived.

 

[gidon]

Well I like the piece - I love his stuff. I like simple elegant pieces like this. I think he understands the shaker style of furniture very well and is an excellent craftsmen.
Cheers
Gidon

 

[promhandicam]

Thanks for this idea Tony. I've taken a look at the guys site and have to say that he certainly pays a lot of attention to detail - on the piece shown the knobs are hand turned in varying sizes getting gradually larger from top to bottom - to correspond with the increasing depth of the draws. I'm not sure that I like the overall proportions but I guess it would depend very much on where you were going to put it - if you had a narrow alcove it would look great - but on a plain wall, for me it wouldn't work. As to the price, IMHO it is irelevant - I personally wouldn't spend 6,000 quid on a piece of furniture (cos I don't have that sort of money) but there are obviously those who do - and it looks like the guy is making a living from it!

In principle I think it is a great idea to be able to show off different designs which if nothing else will hopefully inspire us in our own work - at whatever level it is. My only hesitation would be that it is perhaps impossible to fully appreciate a piece from one photo - which is why I took a few moments to look at his websire. I'd therefore suggest that if it would be possible to have photos showing different angles and details, it would really help in better appreciating the work.

Steve

 

[woodbloke]

Its a nice piece but it doesn't have the 'stunning' factor, 'specially when you look at the price, roughly £6300 or so. For what is essentially a very plain, ill proportioned, rectangular piece of furniture, with no curved items or detailing of any sort the words 'rip' and 'off' spring readily to my mind - Rob

 

[Shivers]

Its a nice piece but it doesn't have the 'stunning' factor, 'specially when you look at the price, roughly £6300 or so. For what is essentially a very plain, ill proportioned, rectangular piece of furniture, with no curved items or detailing of any sort the words 'rip' and 'off' spring readily to my mind - Rob

I place its value at £3,000 maybe less,the shakers made the stuff by hand cos the didn't have routers ---theres nothing admirable about doing something by hand if you can achieve the same thing in a more economically way,& by that i dont mean a machined look either,every pro cabinetmaker knows how to hand tool machined parts for the right look.

he could do the bulk of dovetail sockets by router then clean up with chisel--same ends,
he could have a nice bandsaw to do the tails(carefully though)same ends,

this is a pro who operates like a hobbiest & cons the clueless american clients that its the real deal.

it's the real deal alright--but its done by someone who takes 3 times longer than anyone else.

 

[Anonymous]

Its a nice piece but it doesn't have the 'stunning' factor, 'specially when you look at the price, roughly £6300 or so. For what is essentially a very plain, ill proportioned, rectangular piece of furniture, with no curved items or detailing of any sort the words 'rip' and 'off' spring readily to my mind - Rob

Not sure it is ill proportioned

I think you'll find that the drawers are sized according to the finacci sequence or golden ratio which is recurrent in nature and well know to be the most pleasing relationship to the eye.

The pyramids and all major roman architecture also used this ratio

 

[Anonymous]

Guys, please can we forget the pricing?

It is worth whatever people will pay for it.

 

[woodbloke]

Tony - unfortunatly the price is part and parcel of the complete package and in my view, needs to be considered. If the piece is to be discussed on its own merits or otherwise a link to his web page ought not to have been included. Only my view - Rob

 

[Anonymous]

Boy, I seem to have started something there!

Tony is of course, quite right. The worth of any item is exactly what someone will pay for it. There is simply no such thing as a 'rip-off' unless misrepresentation is involved.

I look forward to the day when someone will pay me £6000 for a chest of drawers. Until then I will have to charge what I can and work my way up.

To the subject in hand - I very much like the idea of featuring pieces of furniture on the forum rather than just the obsession with tools. As a professional myself I am always interested in new styles and ideas - it is so easy to get stuck in one's own rut. It is also very interesting and thought provoking to see what other makers are able to charge for their products!

I'm sorry, Tony, if my slightly fascetious post this morning had the effect of hijacking this thread. Keep up the good work and lets see lots more pieces to provoke discussion.

Cheers
Brad

PS I still don't think that particular chest is all that special and I wouldn't be able to get more than £1500 for it in Manchester!

 

[Shivers]

PS I still don't think that particular chest is all that special and I wouldn't be able to get more than £1500 for it in Manchester!

BINGO

 

[Good Surname or what ?]

Brad Naylor wrote:

PS I still don't think that particular chest is all that special and I wouldn't be able to get more than £1500 for it in Manchester!

But that's a great example of knowing your market. Clearly, Becksvoort knows his too.

Wouldn't you LIKE to get more than £1500? What could you get for it in Alderley Edge or wherever those footballers live?

Maybe that's the difference between Americans and us Brits. They DO believe that they can achieve anything they want.

 

[MikeW]

I find it interesting this thread--regardless of which forum it is posted to--has devolved into such a base topic as pricing. Not a bad thread in and of itself and it has been done, but is often both encouraging and discouraging.

Becksvoort is a very accomplished woodworker. This piece like all pieces taken from or modeled after Shaker furniture has an understated, maybe even clam, look about it. No, it's not everyone's cup of tea, but neither is the type of furniture I love: Early 20th century Modern, in particular, Danish.

The craftsmanship on his pieces are well executed. There is more detailed information on this piece is a past FWW, and suspect Becksvoort's portfolio reveals better photos of details.

Thank you, Tony, for starting this topic. I enjoy them even if I don't always contribute.

Take care, Mike

 

[Anonymous]

Brad Naylor wrote:

PS I still don't think that particular chest is all that special and I wouldn't be able to get more than £1500 for it in Manchester!

But that's a great example of knowing your market. Clearly, Becksvoort knows his too.

Wouldn't you LIKE to get more than £1500? What could you get for it in Alderley Edge or wherever those footballers live?

Maybe that's the difference between Americans and us Brits. They DO believe that they can achieve anything they want.

Couldn't agree more, Phil!

That is why I made the point about 'working my way up'

This is only my second year in business as a cabinetmaker and so it is early days. To command really high prices one needs to develop a reputation and get work through referrals, which doesn't happen overnight.

I suspect that one also needs a smart showroom, which as yet I don't have. The kind of customer who spends thousands on a single piece of furniture generally doesn't venture down the type of muddy, cobbled back street where you will find my workshop! For a start, the wheels on the Chelsea tractor would get dirty.

The sort of money that you see some makers commanding is inspiring and makes one think that maybe there actually is a decent living to be made that doesn't involve fitting kitchens!

Incidently, Tony's gone!

Brad

 

[Shivers]

Footballers have interior designers acting as purchasing agents,now thats a whole different ballgame,interior designers are notorious cheapskates & generally barmy,
So don't expect to get top dollar out of a footballers rep cos they will buy it from you for whatever they can(usually lowballing several cabinetmakers against each other) & charge a 25% finders fee for it.


its not that easy,


shivers.

 

[Roger]

Spot on there Phil:

But that's a great example of knowing your market. Clearly, Becksvoort knows his too

Exactly ....... 'any piece is only worth what someone will pay for it at any given time'. If Becksvoort pieces sell (and they undoubtedly do), then they are obviously not overpriced. Not for his clients or his market, which is after all what counts both for him and for anyone else.

 

[woodbloke]

Tony wrote:

Not sure it is ill proportioned

If you consider the overall outline rather than the proportions of the drawers, it looks to my eyes like a 4 x square shape which does not fit in with the Golden Section at all, in other words its far too tall to be considered as well proportioned - Rob

 

[MikeW]

...in other words its far too tall to be considered as well proportioned

The shape/proportions of an object cannot be removed from the intended purpose/function nor placement.

In the case of custom free-standing furnture that is commissioned, the intended placement dictates to a large degree the overall dimensions. In this case, the borrowed design aesthetic comes before placement. I suspect Becksvoort's clients have an intended placement in mind if this piece is selected at the current dimensions--and I suspect Becksvoort will alter dimensions if appropriate.

Take care, Mike

 

[Scrit]

Well to me it kinda looks a bit plain.

No doubt that there is some skill involved and I do not also doubt that the lines and design are "classic".

I agree. It is plain. To my mind it fails to make any kind of statement other than in the possible excellence of its' workmanship. However, only if viewed as a unique piece of art could that piece justify the price. As a piece of hand/production work I feel it's price is somewhat greater than its' worth

.....the shakers made the stuff by hand cos the didn't have routers ---theres nothing admirable about doing something by hand if you can achieve the same thing in a more economically way,& by that i dont mean a machined look either,every pro cabinetmaker knows how to hand tool machined parts for the right look.

What seems to be happening with pieces like this seems like a bit of carry-over from the Arts & Crafts mentality which has so stilted design and craftsmanship in the UK for a century. Viewed as a piece of artistic endeavor the method of production should not really matter too much, but the form should. Then perhaps I'm not bviewing it correctly.

As for the piece, well it doesn't do anything for me, I'm afraid

Scrit

 

[MikeW]

Well, last poke into this thread for a while...

Shivers wrote:
.....the shakers made the stuff by hand cos the didn't have routers ---

Arguably in the US it was a Shaker who introduced the concept of a table saw. They had many, many powered tools. Just not electrical. Most/many were line shaft or belt driven from a waterwheel power source. They had surface planers, bandsaws, and sawmills etc.

Their methods of work as regards the blend of powered tools and hand tools is not too much different than the choices we all make.

I think this piece--regardless of its price--needs to be taken within the historicity of the Shakers. They eschewed outward ornamentation. It is often only once the piece is opened than much can be seen concerning things often pleasing to the eye.

For instance, often a rasied panel is turned inward. Only upon opening the door would you "know" it was a raised panel. Plainer woods were most often chosen. Simply outward design that on many pieces have subtleties to them. These design considerations were driven by their religious and communal beliefs.

So a question is, if one decides to make reproduction pieces, how much latitude does one feel they have to change an overall aesthetic?

Take care, Mike

 

[woodbloke]

Scrit wrote:

like a bit of carry-over from the Arts & Crafts mentality which has so stilted design and craftsmanship in the UK for a century

Hmmm....not sure I agree here Scrit. A quick trawl thru' this site indicates a distinct lack of stilted work - Rob