"are not fighting for territory, they are fighting to exist. " ?
Sounds awfully like what we were hearing from Germany in 1928 to 1933 . . . .
I never thought that I'd say this but ...
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Sounds awfully like what we were hearing from Germany in 1928 to 1933 . . . .
Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)
Established Member
You need to recognise that anti-Zionistic comments are anti-Semitic. One and the same. Almost exclusively, Jews view Israel as a continuum of the Jewish religion. It is historical, Biblical. You do not need to be a religious Jew to honour your Jewish heritage. The lineage is what makes a Jew a Jew. Not religion.
Regards from Perth
Derek
Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)
Established Member
danst96
Established Member
Mate you are deluded if you believe Iran hasn't attacked, bombed, sabotaged or attempted to overthrow foreign governments.
Actually worse than deluded, you have your head somewhere the sun don't shine.
Not defending the US, just holding up Iran as some kind of saint tells me more than I'd like to know about someone.
danst96
Established Member
Derek, there's no point engaging with Triton. He's brainwashed.
Those who equate anti-Zionism with antisemitism turn the majority* of the world from anti-Zionists into antisemites.
Beware of getting what you want . . . .
* Votes against Israeli behaviour in the UN General Assembly typically garner 130 - 150 votes in support, out of a total membership of 190
[Also, try to avoid demonstrating your illiteracy by using non-words such as 'anti-Zionistic' and 'anti-Semitic' ]
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Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)
Established Member
Im not holding one of the oldest civilizations on Earth as any sort of a saint. I am pointing out that that the United states throughout it's extremely short history has acted like an empire in attempting to force its influence throughout the world.
I don't think observational comments are anti-Semitic. My opinions are just what I have read, seen and heard over the past 50 years. I do feel that Israel the problem in the Middle East and a problem that has a lot of support from the West for the wrong reasons. That's not anti-Semitic either. It's the truth.
RobinBHM
Established Member
the ignore function allows people to turn threads into their own personal echo chamber, they dont have to see anything which doesnt match their cognitive biasDid somebody say something ?
Don't you just love the Ignore option
statements like this for example by Triton: "Criticism of the israeli state is not antisemitic. That is the first point"
Do you accept that Israel weaponises anti-semitism its propaganda war?
And do the Palestinian people have a right to defend themselves ? and if so how proportional should that be ?
And what about Iran, that was initially attacked by israel. Does Iran as a sovereign country have the same right as israel(and every other country) to defend itself, and how proportional should that be ?
All of this stems back to the ethnic cleansing being committed by israel. end that and instigate a 2 state solution, and hostilities cease.
A direct war with Iran is probably going to lead to tens of thousands of deaths, both military and civilian on both sides.
What we need to do is prevent that, not instigate it as some appear to want to happen.
And the only country with that influence is the US.
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RobinBHM
Established Member
You are reducing the argument down to a meaningless binary statement..........it is not true to claim America "has acted like an Empire"
Its the same when you show a meme listing every conflict America has been involved in and claim each one is an example of Americas aggression on the world. Each conflict has complex origins and differing geo political structures
Hmm...Not quite accurate there, Derek. Israel have been land-grabbing since 1950. They have forceably taken other peoples' land for themselves and killed people in the process.
They patrol other peoples' land without consent. They have broken international laws and they push on, relentlessly; they seem to be doing to the Palestinians what Hitler tried in WW2, only quietly. The horrors of October 23 can only be linked to the actions of the Israelis over the past 54 years.
But, as long as the Middle East is in turmoil, the West can enjoy a little peace for a while, which is why western governments only need to stir up troubled waters, occasionally, to keep the 'pot' simmering.
And then, the West better look out...
RobinBHM
Established Member
Do you condemn the actions of Hamas, Hezbollah and Israel?
You critisice people for being one sided, but are you not as one sided yourself?
Iran does not have the right to use the Palestine conflict as an opportunity for a proxy war against Israel
Iran is a close ally of Russia, Iran has supplied lots of weapons to use against Ukraine, a country in Europe
And so the pot is stirred and conflict between Middle-Eastern tribes continue.s
Oh absolutely. That was a terrible massacre, which of course could have been avoided.
Last time i checked Ukraine wasnt a NATO member. Yet the US is supplying them with war weapons of all calibers. We are all aware that this is a proxy action.
But as the Ukraine is an ally in all but name, it is right that other allies can supply and support them.
But why do you think this must be one sided, and it is wrong for Iran/Russia to supply each other with weaponry and support, but it is ok for the west to do the same.
Isn't that a touch hypocritical ?
Being a Star Trek fan, i sometimes dream about what this planet would be like if we werent always at each other throats. Much of the problems appear to be based upon greed.
Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)
Established Member
I think that you need to read history and not quote the propaganda of radical Islam.
As soon as Israel became independent of the British Empire in 1948, all seven Arab countries which were independent at the time (Trans-Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, and Yemen) attacked Israel in a war of aggression and attempted genocide. Four of these countries border Israel, and three of them (Trans-Jordan, Syria, and Egypt) managed to grab chunks of land.
They didn’t give this areas to the “Palestinians” to establish a “Palestine”, for the simple reason that Palestine didn’t exist. Rather, Trans-Jordan grabbed Judea and Samaria (including half of Jerusalem), and then imposed the colonial name “the West Bank” on the region and [illegally] annexed it. And then, since this Kingdom was no longer only east of the River Jordan, it dropped the “Trans-” from its name and became Jordan.
Syria managed to grab part of the Golan, and [equally illegally] annexed it.
Egypt managed to grab the Gaza region, and [equally illegally] annexed it.
In 1967, a grand coalition of 13 Arab and Muslim countries attacked Israel in another war of aggression and attempted genocide: Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Algeria, Morocco, Libya, Kuwait, Tunisia, Sudan, and Pakistan.
Israel again won, and again three countries which border Israel lost land:
Jordan lost Judea and Samaria (which the colonialists and their supporters still call “the West Bank”); Syria lost the Golan; and Egypt lost the Gaza region and the entire Sinai Desert.
Let's take two recent "land grabs" by Israel ....
The contentious West Bank is land that was specifically dedicated by the League of Nations for a Jewish state.
It is not “occupied”. It does not belong to the Arabs. It has never belonged to them.
Gaza was given back to Egypt by Israel in 2005. Egypt promptly washed their hands of it (since Palestinians have a nasty record of creating havoc in Arab states who accept them as refugees). We all know what happened to Gaza in the years since 2005!
So, please, do your homework before making contentious statements.
Regards from Perth
Derek
I think there's a good deal of truth in it. US foreign policy has consistently sought to expand and maintain free-market economies throughout the world, to the benefit of the US. As for Israel, we can't overlook that it's a pretty handy place for US controlled missiles in terms of control of the Middle East and oil supply? I'd say there's a fair bit of 'Empire' to their foreign policy, but I wouldn't say that's all there is to it.
I used to watch the old cowboy movies(Audie Murphy, Randolph Scott etc) and many of them centered around a fort, deep in Indian territory.
I kind of feel thats what israel is. It's deep in a territory American feels is very important to America. Reason there is much of the worlds petroleum comes from that part of the world.
So while they claim they're there for democratic reasons, i think these reasons are disingenuous.
In these movies there was always the cry 'The Indians are attacking' but the reality of these situations in history should have been 'The Indians are defending their land from being stolen'
As it was the natives lost, with 4,700,000 dead and loss of 98% of their land.
Bows and arrows just aren't much good against rifles, cannons and gattling guns.
Possibly also in a round about way the first instance of biological warfare where disease was used or capitalized upon to decimate a people.
But all this is history, and history has a habit of repeating itself, probably because we like reruns
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