How to benefit from smart meters?

[AlanY]

Ab

We're working on stuff like that already.

HCALCS (HAN connected auxiliary load control switch) exist to switch devices such as EV chargers automatically.

There's already live data on the energy mix (e.g. renewable levels) of the grid; e.g. National Grid: Live Status

Weather reporting data API services are widely available.

A huge percentage of the population already use some form a electronic diary / calendar.

All of the basic building blocks already exist. Nothing fantasy about it.

Oh, I know it is being worked on and the technology does exist, but how many people in the City have their own off-road parking space to accommodate an EV parking space? How many people who live in terraced housing have their own off-road parking space? How many people who live in flats... well, I guess you might get the point by now. And then, of those people who do have off-road parking, how many are daft enough to buy an electric car? "hey, Fellahs! I have this great idea to save the Planet". Not.

 

[sploo]

Oh, I know it is being worked on and the technology does exist, but how many people in the City have their own off-road parking space to accommodate an EV parking space? How many people who live in terraced housing have their own off-road parking space? How many people who live in flats... well, I guess you might get the point by now. And then, of those people who do have off-road parking, how many are daft enough to buy an electric car? "hey, Fellahs! I have this great idea to save the Planet". Not.

That's like saying it's fantasy to sell gardening equipment because many people don't have a garden, and the people that do wouldn't be daft enough to buy a spade.

 

[AlanY]

That's like saying it's fantasy to sell gardening equipment because many people don't have a garden, and the people that do wouldn't be daft enough to buy a spade.

Yes, it is really like that.

 

[Geoff_S]

Smart meters are just unnecessary technical gadgets to measure the electricity consumption of a lot of unnecessary technical gadgets.

 

[sploo]

Smart meters are just unnecessary technical gadgets to measure the electricity consumption of a lot of unnecessary technical gadgets.

That's probably true. But you wrote that on an unnecessary technical gadget, and I replied on one

 

[Terry - Somerset]

There is a positive side to how technology can benefit all of us, improve efficiency, use green energy, reduce costs etc etc. All these things are entirely feasible.

• reduce the cost of meter reading through automation
• intelligent use of EV battery storage
• time varable tariff to reduce peak demand
• ingest forecast weather parameters to optimise storage and consumption

If individuals choose to believe there is a malign intent - remote power control, monitor appliance use, sell data for comercial gain, charge consumers daily etc - they will be difficult to dissuade.

However I would expect that when the number of non-smart meter properties fall to low levels, a charge will be introduced for manual meter reading in an attempt to get "laggards" to sign up.

 

[Spectric]

We are just drowning in technology where so much is "because we can " and the rest is sent to annoy us. If it was not for this huge rise in technology then we would not be having an energy crisis. There was some tv program that showed how much energy is used by the USA servers that host our online data and it was just ridiculous but then look online and see how much outdated garbage is still being stored, they need some cleaners.

 

[Ozi]

I remember back in the late 60's when 'off-peak' electricity was pushed for everything from night storage radiators to swimming pool heating. The 'off-peak' period stretched from something like 7pm to 7am with an afternoon period added on. By the early-70's, the suppliers were trying desperately to get people on to a 'white meter' tariff which provided just 8 hours of 'off peak' energy and, by the mid-70's (when I started work in the Electricity industry) it was down to a 7 hour period (Economy 7).

My point being that, as the 'off-peak' periods of supply are identified and people move usage habits to take advantage of those 'cheaper' periods, they rapidly move from being 'off-peak' to being 'peak'. Soon, there will be no such thing as 'off-peak' (if we are not already at that point) and I cannot see the UK ever again having such an excess generating capacity to make for a viable 'off-peak' charging regime. Quite the opposite and I fear that smart meters are really intended as a means of reducing usage (by means of remote disconnect/reconnect) to meet capacity limitations inflicted by this 'Renewables' nonsense. I, for one, will keep my back-up diesel generator.

UK power generation over the last 28 days. Clearly no fluctuation in demand to smooth out!

Storage, a few years ago it didn't exist now it's approaching 1% of demand. Hydro at 2% people on here are writing off. Solar in the winter nearly as big as coal and coal is high at present even for this time of year. There is massive progress being made. Six years ago coal would have been possibly the biggest contributor, but people think it's all a wast of time if there isn't one single answer that solves all problems, they dis electric cars but would happily run diesel. How long did it take to get reliable electrical supply to almost every home in the country, but non of this is instant so it's all rubbish. Few European countries are doing as well as the UK, but if car manufacturers point out that we need green energy to charge EV cars the reaction is "see it's all lies and worthless". Take a look at London air quality in the 1950s, 1980s and now. Everybody stop being so dam negative and do your bit.

 

[Sandyn]

The large scale theft is taken off the mains before the meter - the meter would show nothing.

yes, it would have to be taken before the meter to steal it. It allows the supplier to partition the supply and do a real time check of usage shown on smart meters and compare to measured power. If there is a difference, the theft is happening in that area. Then they can gradually home in on the thief.

 

[Billy_wizz]

I said no to smart meters countless times then (British Gas?) came up with an idea they pay me £50 to have smart meters installed - ok so I took the money and they installed a smart electric meter but couldn't do the gas meter as they couldn't "see" each other/connect for reading. So I have small gadget that if I bother to charge shows me how much electric I am using or have used - they still have to read the meters (or I do it for them) until they install another Mark 2? 3? meter and thats not happening soon as they have targets to install new not come back to finish the job. As previous poster said no point at all for the consumer totally contrary to the misleading adverts

Are you not a bit suspicious that they want to pay you to install something that is supposedly for your benefit?

 

[John Brown]

Are you not a bit suspicious that they want to pay you to install something that is supposedly for your benefit?

I guess you need to weigh the costs against that of meter readers.

 

[user 35906]

I won't be having one until it is mandatory, as far as I can see it is just a token gesture to the greens, that we will all end up paying for with little to no benefit to us, fair enough if smart meters were only fitted when your old meter came to the end of it's life or for new installations but what will happen to all the millions of perfectly good meters, removed that were not due for changing yet.

 

[AlanY]

but what will happen to all the millions of perfectly good meters, removed that were not due for changing yet

They could sell them to one of the EU countries that very sensibly avoided Smart Meters. You know, those technologically backward states like Germany, who found no economical argument to support smart metering. But then, they also did not have somebody like Ed Miliband, who kept commissioning smart meter reports until he got one that supported it. One positive report (it just happened to be the last report he commissioned) out of three was enough to impose billions in costs upon the energy customers of the UK for nothing in return (Centrica estimated that the smart meter rollout would add £40 to the bill for each of their customers). That is a lot of money to spend just to avoid getting an estimated bill (assuming your smart meter works). I have to admit, I have sleepless nights worrying about receiving an estimated bill and having to enter a meter reading via the internet.

 

[Spectric]

Rather than pushing smart meters they should be phasing out all Fluorescent, incandescent, halogen and gas discharge forms of lighting in favour of LED and this would reduce the UK's total energy consumption rather than something like so called smart meters which do not reduce energy consumption.

 

[misterfish]

We've not wanted smart meters and refused several offers to have them fitted.
However we needed the meters moved for house renovation purposes which our electricity supplier said they would arrange, but despite being chased nothing seemed to happen. I worked out that the meters only needed to be moved about a foot or so and the existing wiring was long enough to accomodate this. As nothing seemed to be happening I thought it might help if the meters were changed to smart versions that I might be able to persuade the electician to fit the new meters where I wanted (in exchange for a few beer tokens).

Well, the fitting company intially said they needed to carry out a site survey and would arrange this, but all went quiet. I phoned again after a couple of weeks and it was completely different - no problem, they could fit the meters in a week and if I wanted they would move them up to a meter! All free of charge!

So now we have two smart meters where we wanted them allowing us to cut an access through the wall where the old meters used to be.

As for 'smart' - the electrician said having PV was no problem but it meant the remote display wouldn't give us any useful info as it can't take the pv production into account and give any meaningful cost type displays. So we haven't bothered with remote displays.

As for meter readers, they were almost extict here - I had to send readings every month, but now I don't have to bother.

Jeff

 

[AlanY]

Rather than pushing smart meters they should be phasing out all Fluorescence, incandescent, halogen and gas discharge forms of lighting in favour of LED and this would reduce the UK's total energy consumption rather than something like so called smart meters which do not reduce energy consumption.

Very good suggestion. I often wonder about all those streetlights that blaze away and pollute our night skies. Are they all LED?

Also, just to work, Smart installations must use electricity. According to Smart Energy UK, the IHD/PPMID will cost the customer about £1 per year to run. Given that interest in what the device can tell you rapidly wanes after the brief 'honeymoon period', I hope people stop bothering to charge them when they lose interest. On the Supplier's side, the smart meter installation itself uses about 1kWh per year. Not much until you consider there will eventually be 50 million such installations in the UK. There is also the fact that gas smart meters are battery powered...

Yeah, I am not a fan. When I started work (back in 2013) on the systems that support smart metering the team I was working in were asked whether we all had smart meters? I replied no. The manager concerned asked me why not? "Because I have a brain" did not go down very well as the answer.

 

[Lonsdale73]

Recent adverts I've seen recently claim having a smart meter can a) show what's consuming the power, b) reduce bills by 30+% and c) reduce carbon footprint by x million tonnes. All complete nonsense.

I moved to a house that had smart meters installed. Soon after moving in, the previous owner phoned in a state of panic after being hit with a huge final (gas) bill. She was in such a state I couldn't be sure if she said 17 or 70 but the last part was definitely thousand pounds! The house stood empty for at least three months over summer, with only gas powering only hot water and central heating and even at 'only' £17k, that's an awful lot of how water/heating especially over what passes for summer.

BRitih Gas decided the meters were 'faulty' so settled with her then opened an account with me. Despite it being them who advised the meters were faulty, I had to wait 28 days before I could report them as such. Then took another few weeks for an engineer to actually come out. He took one look at the gas meter and announced he wasn't touching it but he did replace the electric one which came with a remote, USB powered, monitor; they're 'faulty' too. The monitor displays what is currently being used but neither it, the app I was asked to install on my phone nor the web-based account I had to set up show any totals.

Pretty much confirms that smart meters are just hype.

 

[AlanY]

Everybody stop being so dam negative and do your bit.

And what, exactly, is that? Just accept what the 'experts' tell us to do, without question, I suppose?

 

[John Brown]

Rather than pushing smart meters they should be phasing out all Fluorescence, incandescent, halogen and gas discharge forms of lighting in favour of LED and this would reduce the UK's total energy consumption rather than something like so called smart meters which do not reduce energy consumption.

This has been going on for some time. It's already difficult to buy conventional incandescent lamps.

 

[Titan_uk]

the idea of reporting the energy usage (so you don't need to send people out to read meters) is in itself a good idea.

Perhaps the bigger long term benefits can be in real-time processing of energy data, looking at trends, and apps to suggest "green" periods for using power.

I get where you're coming from but I respectfully disagree. Despite the companies insistence it's for the good of all it's all about maximising profits. Saving money and selling exported data.

The grid already knows what a 'green period is', even the most uninformed person can take a reasonable guess at what a 'peak time' is, companies already know what peak usage is in my locality, it doesn't need such fine granularity, if it's really to help me..why is it 2 way?

'don't need to send people out to read meters..'

This in my humble opinion is a very very bad idea where is the consideration of the human cost and balance? How much would 1 paid meter reader contribute in taxes? I'd rather pay a bit more on my bills and keep people in a job than generate higher and higher profits for companies (might moderate that a bit if most of them were actually UK companies). And yes, I'm aware of all the arguements for profits so shareholders invest, so companies can invest, etc etc - that's partly cobblers too.