HELP - Dead SIP table saw

[woody67]

Hope someone can help please. I've got a bog standard 10" table saw thats served me well for 5 years but recently has refused to start intermittently and now it appears to have bit the (saw) dust!! Any checks or quick fixes?? Fuse and connections ok and it hasn't been labouring or smelling burny!

Fingers crossed

Woody ](*,)

 

[9fingers]

Not familiar with the SIP machines
Does it have a brush motor ? (tend to be noisy) If so it could be the brushes need replacing

or perhaps if it has an induction motor (quieter), it could be that the starting capacitor has failed.

Neither are big issues - just need more info to be able to help more.

Bob

Is it this one?

http://www.lawson-his.co.uk/scripts/details.php?cat=Table Saws&product=28222

 

[RogerS]

Has it got an NVR switch? If so then that would be where I'd point the finger.

 

[woody67]

Sorry Bob - it's far more bog standard than that and yes its a noisy old brush motor. It isnt a cast iron bed, ratty old aluminium, I use it for ripping not accuracy and I'm missing it like crazy as I just bought a heap of 2.1m lengths for a cabinet

Woody

Thanks for your help

 

[woody67]

Yes Roger, an NVR switch - I've had that to bits but don't know what I'm looking for although it doesnt click in and out very well!

 

[RogerS]

Basically it's a self-locking relay. As you press in the start button, this mechanically moves the relay armature which in turn closes contacts to both keep the relay coil energised (and the armature pulled in) and also volts to the saw. Nothing possible to repair unless you have a loose connection but I've had two go on me and it was a relay replacement on both occasions.

 

[9fingers]

OK its a brush motor.

If it is the NVR switch then you can bypass this by connecting input to output - just to test though- they are fitted for safety reasons.

If the motor runs then you know where the fault lies.

If the NVR is OK then check the brushes - look for a couple of big insulating screw caps diameterically opposite each other. Diificult to say eaxactly how long the brushes should be but I guess that below 10mm is questionable.
These are normally unique to the motor and not a 'universal' part
SIP dealers should be able to get spares.

HTH

Bob

 

[woody67]

Thanks Bob - I'll give that a bash.

Woody

 

[OPJ]

I experienced a similar problem with my Perform CCNPT planer thicknesser two weeks ago, having barely used it for about two months prior.

I face and edged a piece of oak, it was fine. Switched off, flipped it all about in to thicknessing mode, start up and it sounds really, really slow and tired! Switch it off, double check all settings and try again... BUUUUZZZZZ!

I've been in contact with Axminster and apparently this is due to a fault with the capacitor, located just inside the motor housing. If you get a buzzing noise when you switch your saw on, perhaps you could have the same problem?

I was told it would take six-to-eight weeks before I could recieve an identical replacement part, so they offered me one of the same rating in a smaller diameter, available from stock.

I've almost got it set up and ready to go (or should that be blow...? :? ). It doesn't look too challenging to replace. Strip a couple of new wires, unscrew this, I just need some new crimps to go on that... But whatever you do, I can't stress how important it is to PHOTOGRAPH (or sketch) the layout before you start tampering with it. Just incase you have to go further than you thought.

Best of luck though.

 

[woody67]

Thanks Olly - it might be that, as it did labour a while ago but seemed to cure itself! Failing that I could always get a new one - nowt too expensive though as I'm only a pleb of a DIYer Much as I'd like a Kity or Scheppach, fraid I'm gonna have to stick to Clarke ? Ryobi etc,etc! Any suggestions? The SIP served me well for rough cuts etc.

Woody

 

[OPJ]

From experience, I've had a similar table saw to yours (made by Fox) for over two years. Since I bought my SIP 12" bandsaw last year, I don't seem to have a use for it anymore! I managed to cure problems such as blade wobble and play in the mitre slot, and I also got the rip fence locking a little better. It's okay for quick, rough ripping before running timber over a planer, but I've fallen in love with my bandsaw. Plus, I can't quite seem to get the blade to lock at 90 degrees...

I've been saying this for two months now, but it will be going on eBay very soon! :wink:

You might want to consider getting a bandsaw yourself, if you don't already have one. I don't know, depends on your needs really. I only wish now I'd saved that £180 and added it to the £200 I spent on the bandsaw last year. Oh well.

 

[Hitch]

Does it go round if you give the blade a flick with your fingers? :twisted:

If its a cheapish machine it may not not have external brushes. Meaning youll need to take the motor apart to replace. Its easy enough

 

[9fingers]

Hi Woody,

Any progress? We have established that you have a brush motor and this means that you won't have a significant capacitor that would cause the motor not to run. There might be a small one to reduce radio interference but it would not stop the motor running unless the fuse blew which you have already established is not the case.

Hitch may well be correct in that the brushes could be internal to the motor. Maybe there is an end cap you can get off to see the brushgear?


I seriously doubt that the problem is so severe that replacement machine needs to be contemplated. If I were nearer I could pop over to take a look but the run up from Southampton makes this a little impractical!!


Bob

 

[woody67]

Thanks Bob - The Lake District is worth coming to even if it's just to mend my bloomin saw!! Haven't looked at the motor yet, I'm a bit incapacitated on crutches following an Achilles tendon rupture a month ago. My workshop is a welcoming refuge and I'm lost without my table saw - I'.ve reverted to my bandsaw but it's only got a 6mm blade and so the cuts are way out and have to be planed! Are brushes as easy to replace as washing machine ones?? What are your thoughts about the previous thread concerning bandsaws?? Mines from a (don't laugh) well known German manufacturer - 4 letters, begins with A and ends with I - cost a fortune - £39.99!!

Woody

 

[9fingers]

Hi Woody,

Yes the Lake District is beautiful but I would not have been back in time for tea if I had have come up to look at the saw!

Brush changing can be trivial or relatively easy like a washing machine. Washing machine motors are open frame and your saw will almost certainly be enclosed so could be a little more difficult. I'm assuming that the saw is direct drive to the blade and so you might have to contend with the mechanism to get access.
Your manual should help a bit with the general arrangement even if it does not explicitly cover brush changing.

Do check the NVR switch first as this could be a culprit and a darn sight easier to get to.
What is the model number of your saw? - I could look up a manual to see what we are talking about.

I've not had a lot of luck with small bandsaws in the past and even a good one is not a substitute for a table saw.
I do have a very old solid Startrite Bandsaw which I am refurbishing in odd moments. I'm hoping it will be a good un once it is done.

Sorry to hear you are less than mobile. A couple of years back when I tried to plane off a finger, I was very frustrated about not being able to get into the workshop. They would not even let me go to work (office job) for insurance purposes.

Take Care

Bob

 

[Jake]

I'm a bit incapacitated on crutches following an Achilles tendon rupture a month ago.

Oooh, nasty - I snapped one of mine a couple of years ago, and I've never known any pain like it. My sympathies - at least they do get better!

 

[forrestdale]

It sounds as though you have the SIP 01321 10" table saw, as offered by Screwfix:

If I'm correct, note that there is a cut-out plunger switch next to the main off/on switch:

I seem to remember this is a thermal cut-out for overload protection. The NVR switch is at the bottom left of the machine, however this SIP saw definitely has brushes and I think I'd check them first.

They are actually quite easy to access from underneath the machine, so long as the perforated base panel has been removed. If you have a torch, you can see one of the brush housings through a ventilation grill on the left-hand side of the machine:

The following photo is a view from underneath the machine, showing the location of the motor and the brushes. The front of the machine (with the on/off switch) is at the bottom of the photo.

A chubby screwdriver or coin will enable you to remove the slotted retaining caps and allow you to remove and inspect the brushes. If the saw is on its stand, this could be done by kneeling beside the machine and reaching up through the bottom and "guddling", or lying under the saw looking upwards (you are best to wear eye protection due to falling dust). However, if the perforated base access panel is in place, you'll firstly have to remove the saw from the stand in order to remove the access panel, and in that case you might as well turn the saw upside down or put it on its side for easier access to the motor and brushes.

I have the instruction manual floating about somewhere, and can have a more determined look if you have lost your copy.

Forrest

 

[woody67]

Thanks again Bob - sorry for the delay, I've just hobbled in after some knuckle bashing! I haven't got the model number, but I pinched this info off e-bay, it's exactly like mine. I would post a photo, but I don't know how to!!

10" SIP table saw . Alloy work bed,. Saw guard. Adjustable fence. Mitre gauge.

Overall height on stand 35". Table size 28" X 16"

Specifications : 230V. Blade angle adjustable from 0 - 45 degrees. 2 horsepower. 4200 RPM. 6 Amps.

I've had the NVR switch to bits and it doesn't seem to click as smoothly as others but it doesn't appear too warn. Think I'll try the motor tomorrow - did you say you can test it by by-passing the switch temporarily? A bit like with woodworking, I'm pretty naff at electrics too!

Mark Wood - Funny name for a real amateur don't ya think???

 

[woody67]

Thanks Forrest, that'll make my job much easier tomorrow. Believe it or not, but my saws an older model than that! It looks very similar though. Failing all else, I'll give it a good whack with my crutches!!

Mark

 

[motownmartin]

Yes Roger, an NVR switch - I've had that to bits but don't know what I'm looking for although it doesnt click in and out very well!

These switches have a tendency to stick, I would suggest you take the cover off to check that the stop switch is returning, at work this seems to be a common problem with this type of switch, it sounds as though it could be this as you said that it once an intermittent problem, when you stop the machine the internal part of the switch sticks so you cannot restart the machine until it returns and it gradually gets worse then you have to force it back with a screwdriver (don't forget to unplug first).

Hope this helps

Martin