Have I undersold myself here?

[Cabinetman]

Another aspect of these units, is what it would cost you to learn what you learnt when you tried to fit those hinges, I suspect that they weren’t designed for that particular application, which is why you had to take a chunk off the back of the doors where they fit and also add those thickening pieces to the sides of the cabinet where the hinges fit, and then, to enable you to get the shelves in and out you had to put grooves across those thickening pieces. I can see you’ve had a right game fitting them!
Having the grain flow across all four doors like that is very nice indeed. I can’t remember the last time I bought any elm, but if it was oak I would expect to pay about £200 for the timber, I Think it would take two days to go from rough sawn to ready to fit panels and probably another day finishing and fitting hinges and shelf brackets three days at £250 plus the £250 for the frame so really a minimum £1000 in total for the two cabinets. And that’s mates rates, you have to add on organising the metal frames, collecting them, going for the timber, scratching your head time. Plus contingency fund for the jobs that don’t go to plan, you couldn’t really do them for less than £1500 for the two as one-offs. Ian

 

[RobinBHM]

When replicating an off the shelf piece to a bespoke size, the price should be a minimum of double.

So £640 x2 is £1280

Sale price to Joe Public say £1500
Sale price to your mates min of £1000


The art to selling bespoke furniture or indeed joinery is price conditioning - especially important on big ticket items like fitted kitchens, orangeries etc. It's quite easy for an experienced business, because you can say to a potential customer "oh yes, we did a kitchen similar to this 6 months back, it was in the region of £54k" The problem for those of us starting out is not having that pricing history and it can lead to lots of time wasting or awkward moments (but I saw it Oak furniture land for £2.50.....)

 

[baldkev]

Good thread. I hate pricing i always end up thinking " would i pay that?" Which is largely irrelevant, as its the customer who wants the job done, not me! I recently did some onecoat plaster patchups, built a window seat in an alcove, a small shelf unit in another, new skirtings around the room ( old cottage ) and trimmed 3 doors, made an oak nosing and a couple of other small bits. It took 3 days and with the materials was just shy of £1000
It sll adds up. That said, it transformed the room and no doubt added more to the property value

 

[Cabinetman]

Good thread. I hate pricing i always end up thinking " would i pay that?" Which is largely irrelevant, as its the customer who wants the job done, not me! I recently did some onecoat plaster patchups, built a window seat in an alcove, a small shelf unit in another, new skirtings around the room ( old cottage ) and trimmed 3 doors, made an oak nosing and a couple of other small bits. It took 3 days and with the materials was just shy of £1000
It sll adds up. That said, it transformed the room and no doubt added more to the property value

Yes I agree spot-on. Me being a tight wad I always think I can’t charge that! Whereas in actual fact most people are thinking much higher prices than I am, so I have to steal myself when I’m talking prices, sort of split personalIity. The Mr Hyde who wants the job and doesn’t like to charge an embarrassing amount, and the Mr Jekyll who knows it has to be done to survive. Ian

 

[baldkev]

Yes I agree spot-on. Me being a tight wad I always think I can’t charge that! Whereas in actual fact most people are thinking much higher prices than I am, so I have to steal myself when I’m talking prices, sort of split personalIity. The Mr Hyde who wants the job and doesn’t like to charge an embarrassing amount, and the Mr Jekyll who knows it has to be done to survive. Ian

So true..... im a site carpenter and have a small workshop which im hoping to get more time in and do less site work. Trying to factor in 24 years of experience, tens of thousands of pounds of tools and kit plus the value of multiskilled work ( which saves the clients money ) is difficult.... most of us have a good level of all round ability..... I most definitely am not expensive compared to a lot of the others round here but i still feel awkward with pricing.

 

[Lons]

I very quickly realised that the worst thing you can do when starting out is undersell yourself, I'm of the same mind as others and think would I pay that but as said it's not relevant. If you start cheap it's a long hard road to get prices up to where they should be, it's much easier to give a higher price and come down a little, (not d/glazing salesman tactics though ), once you have a reputation for cheap work that's all you'll ever get and in any event there will always be someone even cheaper.

Most customers aren't idiots, they all would like a RR for the price of a Mini but generally just want value for money and will go for the middle ground. Price fairly and consistently and provide a good reliable service and you soon build up a good reputation. Customers want a business to be still there next week/year to go back to rather than see them go under because they can't make a living.

 

[Nelly111s]

I would have thought that designing / measuring, machining, glueing up panels, sanding, finishing, fitting hinges / catches would be a couple of days work, possibly as much as 20 hours in total. Say £30 / hour for your time & overheads. £600 plus your fixed costs. I presume you aren't marking these up, which you should, because there's your time in dealing with the powder coating etc. If you weren't doing it for a mate, then £1100 would not be unreasonable.
As others have said, pricing is something I think a lot of people struggle with. How many furniture makers have marketing degrees? Most people who make furniture have a skill in making furniture, not in running a business, or finding clients for the type of work that they do, or want to do.

 

[AlanY]

But i've not said how much I charged yet...

Well, put us out of our misery... how much did you charge?

Lovely job, by the way.

 

[thetyreman]

I am a bit of a nutter and just tell friends up front that they will be paying full price for anything and give them a 'take it or leave it' price, that's not negotiable, it gets rid of the jokers and lowballers.

 

[Spectric]

I got asked to make these two side tables by some friends but they weren't looking for mates rates, they were happy to pay a fair price for them.

You are in an area that I would always tread carefully, to me freinds would be more important than earning a few quid, their idea of a fair price could be very different from yours and result in a falling out because they believed they would get mates rates and were just being polite. Saying that I have helped freinds out and basically they paid for all materials and then a case of they owed me a favour.

 

[doctor Bob]

I've got no mates ................

plenty who pop round and ask if I can just .............................

My wife seems to have got into a bad habit of volenteering me for village stuff as well

 

[Lefley]

Wether you made good money or not. You havd learned a huge lesson. You have now made two cabinets beginning to end and know exactly how long it would take to make again.. Add some overhead costs along with your labour costs and of course wood costs and you know what to exactly charge next time to make $5.15 an hour For a friend of 75.00 an hour for a non friend!

 

[woodwind]

My first thought was £1500 and after reading through the thread I see that others have mentioned the same price so I stick with that.

 

[TheTiddles]

They’re quite nice. I’d have used different hinges, but hey... I’d say £1000 each would be a fair price. You could get more I’m sure, less might be ripping yourself off, but you are of course free to do that to your heart’s content

Someone offered me £100 for my coffee table once, I said £5k, think they were surprised

Aidan

 

[Dandan]

Thank you all so much for all the responses! There's a lot of great feedback here so for that you all have my thanks.
I'll put you out of your misery, I charged £750 for the pair, so possibly as little as half the reasonable value! I'm not salty about that, they are for friends and I thoroughly enjoyed making them as well as learning a lot in the process.
My quote was materials plus an estimate of 32 hours (4 days) labour at a very reasonable £15 an hour. (plus £25 for finish which I forgot to quote) Whoever said 1.5 days is clearly some kind of wizard, as I would guess these took me more like 50 hours to complete, although my relative inexperience probably contributed to the length of time they took.

I clearly need the confidence to claim my time is worth a sensible rate of pay and the confidence to walk away from the cheap jobs! Also maybe the sense to stop telling myself everything is worth it for the learning experience

Off the back of sharing this project on my Facebook I got asked to quote for a dining table design and build. The first sentence included "our budget is limited" so we'll see how that plays out...

 

[doctor Bob]

Just remember the higher you quote the better the quality has to be.

 

[Dandan]

Just remember the higher you quote the better the quality has to be.

That's perhaps what worries me most!

 

[Jacob]

That's perhaps what worries me most!

No it's good.
The more you charge the more you can afford to get things right - you have leeway and you are working your way into better quality and more profitable type of work.
Do things on the cheap you get known for it - and you can't afford to improve your act.
Not that I ever got rich on it but I know now how I should have done things!
You sometimes get clients haggling about prices - dropping hints about other estimates "your best price" etc. The way to deal with them is to put the price up - let some other twerp do a less good job on the cheap and make a loss.

 

[Fitzroy]

Very interesting thread. I don’t do business with family or friends, too much opportunity for someone to get hurt. That said I think if you saw those two in a shop (Think JL ir similar) as a pair at that price you think it a steal, those fronts are gorgeous!

I totally understand your nervousness about selling pieces, and judging the required quality etc. I’ve a desire to at somepoint, likely in retirement, to make and sell bits. But it’s that balance of quality with price that I’ve so little feel for. On all the things I’ve made I know there are small errors, but would these be acceptable to a paying customer? To eliminate them all I’d be spending multiples of the normal time, or remaking parts over and over.

fitz.

 

[DBT85]

What a creator sees and what everyone else sees are two very different things. I can point out all the oddities in my house as it was me that did it all, nobody else notices them. What is an OK finish to you is wizard magic to others.

My quote was materials plus an estimate of 32 hours (4 days) labour at a very reasonable £15 an hour.

This where you are underselling yourself.