Have I undersold myself here?

[Dandan]

Hi All,
I got asked to make these two side tables by some friends but they weren't looking for mates rates, they were happy to pay a fair price for them. This is the first woodwork job i've ever charged properly for so i'd like to see how close to the mark you lot think I am with my pricing.
I'll give the spec of the tables, and the fixed costs, then id be really interested to hear suggestions of labour time required and a final price before I say what I charged.







The units are bespoke versions of something the client saw on OakScrapWoodLand or whatever it's called, the items on the website were too large to fit in the recess either side of their chimney so these are around 85% of the width with a different cupboard layout. The MoreGlueThanOak.com tables were £320 each so £640 in total.

The units I made are 750x450x600 approx, welded steel frame powdercoated black with elm panels on all sides and a shelf inside, fixed with threaded inserts in the wood and tabs welded to the steel frame. The front panels are cut from a single slab to give a continuous grain pattern, the other panels are glued up boards due to my planer width.
I'd say the finish quality is fair to good, they wanted rustic/industrial but actually I think the finish is a little better than I expected.

Fixed costs for both (steel, fasteners, powdercoating, finish) was £250 in total, crucially the wood was free to me, a saving which I passed onto them.

How much labour time would you suggest for a job like this, and what price would you put on the finished article?
Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

 

[johnnyb]

I try to avoid swapping time for cash. so I would take your £250 and add as much as you can at least 10% maybe 20 or 30. even if I'd got the wood for free I would charge full price plus. use that as your fixed cost then attempt to put a value on what you've have just given to them. something not available anywhere that fits perfectly in the space and fulfils all there needs.
you will still be working for peanuts

 

[gog64]

Having made similar, I’d guesstimate 1.5 days labour. If you were making a batch then you’d do it faster of course. Very nice of you not to charge for the wood!

I should have said that I’m assuming that I just have to joint the wood, if it’s rough sawn, a bit longer.

 

[Jameshow]

£100 each? So £700 total?

Estimating a price is a nightmare.

Cheers James

 

[Amateur]

I can only tell you This.
.My friend asked me to make an oak table.
Price no problem.
Did the plans and agreed he would pay for the raw materials.
So I took him to my wood supplier who worked out the prices in front of him and gave him the bill.
He looked at me and asked for a word.
Turning he said, I didn't realise it would be that much, I can buy an imported table for a quarter of the price.
And he did.

So firstly
Do the drng.
Price up.
Then tell them the completed delivered price.
Not only will you save time with time wasters but you both know where your at.
and far better than completing it and the customer saying, " You're joking, how much? After you've made it.
It's no different than any tradesman does and irrational to ask what we think when only you can answer that question.

But that's my opinion and others may disagree with it.

 

[doctor Bob]

you have MASSIVELY undersold yourself ...........................

 

[Dandan]

Perhaps I should add all the wood was in rough sawn slabs to begin with, it was all resawn, planed and thicknessed, the front panels by hand...

 

[Dandan]

you have MASSIVELY undersold yourself ...........................

But i've not said how much I charged yet...

 

[doctor Bob]

But i've not said how much I charged yet...

I'm sorry ............. I mis read it, thought you had charged £250 I was going to order a dozen.

 

[Lons]

You'd get a shock at how much it would cost to replace the wood and there will be hidden costs like electricity, abrasives, transport etc. The very least that you should charge, as they are friends, is the amount it would have cost to buy the ones they originally saw but in reality you should be charging time as well. They are bespoke items and should be a premium.

 

[DBT85]

Given that you've not charged for the wood? I'd still say at least the same as notoakbutstilloakandglue.com.

It's bespoke furniture after all.

 

[Doug71]

I am useless at pricing but I bet you didn't make minimum wage.

 

[Inspector]

I'm not in business for myself but one thing I would never do is not price the material for what it would cost to buy. The reason being if they come back for a matching piece of furniture like a china or TV cabinet the customer will freak when you give them the price with the real cost. Each to their own though.

A question if I may. The insides of the open doors don't look like they have a finish on them. Is that a quirk of the picture or are they unfinished?

Pete

 

[Jacob]

I would have quoted high, say £1500+ at the beginning and see what they came back with. Up to them to research the market price i.e. the max price they would be prepared to pay
Price of materials just a detail unless they specify something really out of the ordinary. Ditto labour - it's market price you want which should be very much higher than cost of making.
If you are going to make to measure a copy of something from a catalogue you should be charging 3 or more times as much if it's fairly simple. More if not.
Or to put it another way - tell them to ask moreshitthanoak. to quote for making them to measure and start from that price.

 

[Sideways]

"I'll make you a pair of custom cabinets to fit your space, out of far more attractive, scarce, solid wood - not boards made of glued up scrap"
"Two off custom build not factory mass production will mean twice (3x) as much work".
You can have them for :
"The same price" as the other ones
"A round £1,000 for the pair"
"Time and (replacement price of) materials"

Your mates. Take your pick
You've already realised that you undersold yourself because you're asking the question.
But your workmanship has to be up to standard if you're taking money for it.

Well done regardless. You made two nice pieces and your first sale. Good start !

 

[Jacob]

Another consideration when making a copy of someone elses product is that you would have to look at design and other details. One way to get this sorted is to ask the client to buy one of the originals for you, to save time and effort over the design process.

 

[dzj]

Depends where on the 'Minimum wage to Sam Maloof' continuum you see your earnings.
Add up the hours it took you to complete the side tables, the cost of materials and doing business and there you go.
No one but you can answer this much better, I'm afraid.

 

[petermillard]

You’ve already massively undersold yourself by passing the free wood onto the customers at cost, friends or not. One thing I always tried to do early on if I was stuck in pricing, was to have a stab at figuring out what it would cost me to have the components made, so that all I had to do was nail it together and put a finish in it.

A pair of custom made black powder-coated welded steel frames alone would probably cost as much as the original high street items. Buying the elm and having it machined to size, thickness, made into panels etc,,, probably as much again. Design fees to ‘interpret’ the original.

Only then do you get into your end of things - the fabrication, finishiing, delivery & installation. It all adds up.

 

[johnnyb]

1.5 days to make! it would take longer to make and coat the steel work. the price of that type of wood (was it elm) would be 3-400. even the hinges would take longer than 1.5days.

 

[paulrbarnard]

£1000 the pair.