Have a look at this Jacob!

[G S Haydon]

Corneel, agreed, I think thin plane irons lend themselves well to honing the whole bevel.

 

[Jacob]

I must confess Jacob here in the South West it is very rare to find anything made before WW 2 that had anything but Ovlo or Lambs Tongue mouldings. ....

Not common but they are certainly there. Unless you are a window fetishist like me they are easily overlooked. In fact the last proper sash I did was on the Chatsworth estate which copied the 18C originals which had bevels instead of mouldings. Thin 14mm glazing bars so quite slender and elegant.
The 10 large chapel windows I did here are also exact copies of a bevelled design.
I first ever noticed them at Plas yn Rhiw. Can't recall if they were all bevelled or just a few.

 

[G S Haydon]

Very nice Jacob! These type of conservation projects are lovely to be part of.

 

[Jacob]

Very nice Jacob! These type of conservation projects are lovely to be part of.

I didn't work at Plas yn Rhiw I was just a visitor! But I have done period work in a lot of very nice old houses.

 

[G S Haydon]

Ah, sorry! Still nice to see quality joinery from back in the day.

 

[AndyT]

If anyone thinks they have read enough about sharpening but quite fancies learning a bit more about sash templates... get on over to the excellent "Hackney Tools" blog here: http://hackneytools.com/2013/08/how-to-use-sash-templates-or-templets/ and look for the dowloads.

Gary asked the right people and now has a copy of an article by Jane Rees (yes, the tool historian who is working on the next edition of "British Planemakers") which explains what types there were and something of how they would have been used. The article was published in the Journals of the Construction History Society and the Early American Industries Association, but has not been available in full online before. You can download it as a pdf.

I thought I had linked to this before, but a search shows that I hadn't - I hope people will think of it as a reward for staying with this thread as far as page 14!

 

[G S Haydon]

Andy that is a great link!

 

[bugbear]

If anyone thinks they have read enough about sharpening but quite fancies learning a bit more about sash templates... get on over to the excellent "Hackney Tools" blog here: http://hackneytools.com/2013/08/how-to-use-sash-templates-or-templets/ and look for the dowloads.

Gary asked the right people and now has a copy of an article by Jane Rees (yes, the tool historian who is working on the next edition of "British Planemakers") which explains what types there were and something of how they would have been used. The article was published in the Journals of the Construction History Society and the Early American Industries Association, but has not been available in full online before. You can download it as a pdf.

I thought I had linked to this before, but a search shows that I hadn't - I hope people will think of it as a reward for staying with this thread as far as page 14!

IIRC TATHS used to haul a full set of sash making hand tools around various shows, a while ago, as part of their "join us, we know interesting stuff" pitch.

BugBear

 

[AndyT]

Well, there certainly are TATHS members with specialist knowledge of such matters - some are also members of this forum!

BB, I'm a bit surprised you were not one of the founding members back in 1983, but it's not too late to join - http://www.taths.org.uk/

There is even a Facebook page for people who like that sort of thing - where you can see an interesting little video of Jane Rees talking about historical tools, amongst other good stuff https://www.facebook.com/TATHSoc - (There's no need to sign up to Facebook to see this.)

 

[David C]

Ellis "Examine the edge; when held to the
light it should be invisible, or it may be tested by gently applying the ball
of the thumb in a sliding motion across the edge, when if sharp, it will be felt
to grip the skin".

This is a great method. I was shown it 42 years ago. It is as well to have a rather horny thumb ! It gets mentioned every year but not necessarily recommended..........

Perhaps better at revealing bluntness?

David Charlesworth

 

[mark w]

Jacob I think the point Bugbear was trying to make with regard to the sash template was, you try to make out you know a great deal on a subject to the point of knowing everything when in fact you don`t, another example is your comment on Ellis when you said he doesn`t say much about sharpening, no mention of grindstones and then Bugbear pastes Ellis`s article which is fairly long and detailed and has reference to a grindstone! You couldn`t have been more wrong.
I`m quite convinced you sit in front of your computer all day watching this forum and quickly Google the chosen subject, swat up on it for 5 minutes and then post as though you are an expert on the subject and then when someone like Bugbear catches you out you simply ignore the point they are making.
Answer this question, which is easier to push into a piece of wood, a sharp chisel with a convex bevel or one with a concave bevel?

 

[Jacob]

Jacob I think the point Bugbear was trying to make with regard to the sash template was, you try to make out you know a great deal on a subject to the point of knowing everything when in fact you don`t,

I know what I know, no more no less and I don't try to pretend otherwise. I couldn't get away with it could I with my little archivist troll trailing after me day and night! :roll:
Sash template is not something I've encountered, but in any case would be of little use to me as no window set is quite the same as another. I guess it would have been a tool found in large workshops with a big turnover producing the same design. I've no idea how common they were but they were not in any way essential, as I know from producing 100s of windows (period copies) without finding the need! PS I'm surprised BB believes they exist at all, as they don't feature in any of the holy texts!

another example is your comment on Ellis when you said he doesn`t say much about sharpening, no mention of grindstones and then Bugbear pastes Ellis`s article which is fairly long and detailed and has reference to a grindstone! You couldn`t have been more wrong.

It doesn't mention grindstones. Can you not read? It mentions "grinding basils" but in the absence of a wheel that'd be hand done on a flat stone. So I wasn't wrong. Have another look.
It isn't long and detailed either - about half a page on plane irons that's all, as compared to whole books and hours of DVDs from the orthodox brethren of new sharpeners!

Answer this question, which is easier to push into a piece of wood, a sharp chisel with a convex bevel or one with a concave bevel?

The chisel which you would most likely "push into a piece of wood" is the mortice chisel which has a rounded bevel for a good reason. For most chiselly purposes it isn't going to make much difference, except an overly hollow grind is going to be more fragile.

when someone like Bugbear catches you out you simply ignore the point they are making.

Weirder and weirder!
The chances of being "caught out" by bugbear is very low, as far as I can tell he does no woodwork himself at all and gets it all (such as it is) from cruising the net and woodwork mags. Caught out doing what, fer crissake? Example please.
Basically he is just a troll, with nothing interesting to say but always seeking attention.

 

[mark w]

I think you do pretend Jacob, you were caught out in another thread when you made some reference to guitars, a person who really new the subject tried to put you right.
In bugbears text it says this "An undulating motion must be avoided,as this will produce a "round edge", necessitating frequent regrinding". what is he grinding on if not a stone? Yes I can read.
The chisel you are most likely to push into a piece of wood is the paring chisel, you are far more likely to strike a mortice chisel with a hammer.
Not weird at all, and Bugbear has caught you out, can you read?

 

[Racers]

I think he believes he is infallible, and because he make things he is so much better than any one else on here.
Probably small man syndrome and overlooked middle child/only child syndrome.

Pete

 

[Jacob]

I think you do pretend Jacob, you were caught out in another thread when you made some reference to guitars, a person who really new the subject tried to put you right.

FFS I knew nothing about Fenders and was quoting something I'd read and somebody who knew more than me put me right. So what? Is that it then? What on odd and uninteresting little thing to remember. Do you have link? we could all go back for a second look and get really excited. Here it is post798586.html?hilit=fender#p798586

In bugbears text it says this "An undulating motion must be avoided,as this will produce a "round edge", necessitating frequent regrinding". what is he grinding on if not a stone? Yes I can read.

Oh I see. By "grindstone" I meant wheel. There's no mention of "grindstones" or "grind wheels" or hollow grinding etc etc.which is the obvious but trivial point I was making, which you have chosen to misunderstand .

The chisel you are most likely to push into a piece of wood is the paring chisel, you are far more likely to strike a mortice chisel with a hammer.....

:roll: What chisel would you use for splitting hairs?

 

[Jacob]

I think he believes he is infallible, and because he make things he is so much better than any one else on here.
Probably small man syndrome and overlooked middle child/only child syndrome.

Pete

Deeply fascinating as usual Pete. Where would we be without your unceasing wit and wisdom? Never a dull word. :roll:
NB As a rule people who make things know more about making things than people who don't make things. Anybody, everybody, not just me.

 

[Kalimna]

Jacob - a chisel for splitting hairs? A microtome.

Cheers,
Adam

 

[Jacob]

Rightho. Any sharpening hints?

 

[Racers]

bye Jacob.

Pete

 

[Corneel]

Hmmm, we're back at personal attacks again for no apparent reason. Can't you guys relax a bit, and keep the discussion to the pro's and con's of convex bevels (at this point in the thread)? I certainly don't always agree with Jacob either, but the attacks I see here are just childish.