Has Mr Grimsdale been banned ?

[Charley]

It's the banning/threats of banning/random post removals and people getting their knickers in a twist because someone didn't like something they said that make this forum seem like a far less friendly place.

Posts and threads are only edited, deleted or removed when they brake the rules. If you do have any concerns please contact me directly.

If you haven't had a warning yet ... it's on its way!

Sorry I didn't know you were a moderator now Angela :wink: :roll: Davy's post is fine as far as I can see...

 

[Anonymous]

Posts and threads are only edited, deleted or removed when they brake the rules. If you do have any concerns please contact me directly.

Strange I had a post removed only this morning, which broke no rules, but i suspect was considered to be mickey taking of the mods, come on guys, lighten up

 

[woodbloke]

davy owen 88 wrote -

Perhaps if this forum wasn't expected to be a back-slapping, (nice one senior ) group-hug kind of place and more a place for woodworkers to share experience/advice and offer genuine comments

My two cents input, for what it's worth. I have crossed blades with Mr Grim on a number of ocassions and as others have said, does tend to fire from the hip without fully engaging the grey matter, as we all do from time to time. His input to the forum is valid, though in my view, not always sound.
I've said previoulsy elsewhere that I value criticsm, both negative and positive. It's always pleasant to hear good things about what we all try and achieve in our workshops but equally would like to read constructive comments about projects and techniques, as indicated by Davy in the quote.
I would also say that this is Charley's site and he is the 'Boss of Bosses' (sorry Dom ) and does decide on the rules, which are clearly stated and I for one try and respect them. We should also bear in mind that although this is primarily a UK site, anyone with an internet connection from Aukland to Amsterdam is party to the conversation.
Mr Grim has made a transgression of the rules and has received a temporary ban as a consequence (please correct if wrong) I look forward to further interesting conversations with Mr Grim when he's hopefully reinstated. Only my personal view on this one - Rob

 

[A_n_g_e_l_a]

Charlie, since you address me directly, here in this forum, kindly allow me to do the same to you.

I speak for myself and only myself. But I find I am in agreement with, I acknowledge - a minority, who consider your action of allowing British Woodworking to advertise in the forum a mistake.

It now appears to have been a quid pro quo arrangement - in that it is reported that BW have in return featured UKW. Maybe this is simply fortuitous but my aged cynicsm hints at me otherwise.

If you have rules that are rigourously policed - and it appears they are - you and your mods shouldn't be too upset when someone take a poke for breaking one your own rules.

Have the good grace to apologize for your mistake - breaking rule 5 - and call off the thought-police, please. Even Thatcher, Kinnock, Major et al didn't try to pull the plug on Spitting Image's quite vicious, at times, satirical portrayal of their bungling.

I no longer buy magazines as I am tired of the sychophantic relationship most magazines seem to have with advertisers. It appears to me that all publications are simply another means of marketing to us - the punters.

I had previously thought UKW might be different. If this goes on, I consider you will stand to lose even more readers and click-throughs, than you might otherwise have done.

You have already lost mr grimsdale and his valuable input; who else are you going to let your thought-police see off? I fully understand I'm breaking rule 8 "You shall love the lord thy God and criticise him not" ... but so what, Precious.

 

[davy_owen_88]

Posts and threads are only edited, deleted or removed when they brake the rules. If you do have any concerns please contact me directly.

(2.) No offensive material
UKW expects members to behave respectfully and not to personally attack or be abusive to other members. ‘Offensive’ is a pretty broad term, but we think you know what we mean.

I think the problem is that perhaps your moderators don't actually know what you mean. What some people take offence at, some people will not. Some people consider a negative comment an insult, while others will take it at face value and learn from it. I understand the mods have a hard job trying to find a balance between these, but recently I think the balance has gone out the window and anything that isn't deemed positive is considered an insult.

The thread regarding Tony's plane is a perfect example. The thread started without any direct point. Just 'check out Tony's plane in whatever magazine.' Someone made the valid point about the dangerous picture and then a discussion came about regarding safety. Was this a bad thing? Was anyone actually insulting Tony directly? No, yet it was still locked, and now appears to have been deleted.

It seems there's this 'if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all' attitude which is truly pathetic for a group of adults who require criticism in order to learn. If more than one person makes the same criticism it is considered an argument and then other members come in trying to defend their forum 'buddies' which then leads to the thread being locked and everything interesting and useful that could have come out of it being lost. Perhaps the mods should focus on those that take offence/retaliation and lay off those that appear to be causing the stir - because in my opinion, the most useful part of this forum is the negative points brought up which helps everyone to learn.

 

[Mike.C]

Sorry, but I cannot belive why anyone should attack Andy. He came back on the forum to defend himself against Mr Grimsdale who basically said that he among others were amateurs writing for amateurs. Now considering that writing is the way he earns money to look after his family and pay the bills, I think that he has every right to defend himself.

All I can say is come on guys and girls, lets try and calm down and get back to the way it used to be, because I for one have been helped more then you could ever know by members of this forum. I cannot think of any place where people give their time and advice freely, willingly and without benefit to themselves then they do on this forum. It seems like nothing is to much for members, and I am continually astounded by their kindness, and the effort they put into helping their fellow members, and I for one would hate to stop coming here.

Don't get me wrong I am as bad as anyone else for retaliating and shouting my mouth off before putting my brain in gear.

Stepping down off my orange box and getting my coat. :wink:

Cheers

Mike

 

[Charley]

Hi Angela,

As I already explained in the BWW post, I allowed Nick's thread because a) he asked me first, b) I thought it would be useful to the members, c) as he has just written an article mentioning UKW something that should bring us new members and d) I wanted to return the favour. Without wanting to cause any offence I don't think it's anyone's business if I, the site owner want to allow a post. I do however think it's fantastic that people care so much about UKW. In hindsight seeing how the thread turned out I probably shouldn't of allowed it and I apologise again to anyone it upset.

Posts and threads are only edited, deleted or removed when they brake the rules. If you do have any concerns please contact me directly.

(2.) No offensive material
UKW expects members to behave respectfully and not to personally attack or be abusive to other members. ‘Offensive’ is a pretty broad term, but we think you know what we mean.

I think the problem is that perhaps your moderators don't actually know what you mean. What some people take offence at, some people will not. Some people consider a negative comment an insult, while others will take it at face value and learn from it. I understand the mods have a hard job trying to find a balance between these, but recently I think the balance has gone out the window and anything that isn't deemed positive is considered an insult.

The thread regarding Tony's plane is a perfect example. The thread started without any direct point. Just 'check out Tony's plane in whatever magazine.' Someone made the valid point about the dangerous picture and then a discussion came about regarding safety. Was this a bad thing? Was anyone actually insulting Tony directly? No, yet it was still locked, and now appears to have been deleted.

It seems there's this 'if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all' attitude which is truly pathetic for a group of adults who require criticism in order to learn. If more than one person makes the same criticism it is considered an argument and then other members come in trying to defend their forum 'buddies' which then leads to the thread being locked and everything interesting and useful that could have come out of it being lost. Perhaps the mods should focus on those that take offence/retaliation and lay off those that appear to be causing the stir - because in my opinion, the most useful part of this forum is the negative points brought up which helps everyone to learn.

You make some good points Davy and I agree with most of them. We are trying to get the balance back on track and keep everyone happy. I'm considering modifying the rules and guidelines to improve things.

Tony's Plane thread wasn't deleted because of that reason. The safety discussion was valid. The whole thread was deleted simply because it was large and would take us too long to remove the offending posts.

I hope this clears a few things up and we can go back to talking about wood and tools. Again if anyone wants to contact me about this or anything else please do...

 

[Scrit]

Sorry, but I cannot belive why anyone should attack Andy. He came back on the forum to defend himself against Mr Grimsdale who basically said that he among others were amateurs writing for amateurs.

Firstly what I'm going to "say" is not directed at any one personally. Secondly I did not read the last day's worth of posting on "that thread" so I'm not in a position to comment on it's contents, at least not sensibly. But having got that out of the way I will say this much; there appears to be a growing tendency for magazines to publish photographs without any attempt to control content. My feeling is that "risky" techniques should not be illustrated as some readers tend to trust what they see and read in journals and books (which are often written by untrained individuals) - and attempt to mimic what they've seen. I find American authors and publishers and their British licencees particularly lax in that respect (even in light of the lower safety threshold required by OSHA). Amateurs writing for amateurs is all very well, but unlike sewing or rug making woodworking does carry with it a degree of risk of injury which magazines should take on board. Or am I wrong to expect a degree of responsible behaviour from the press in these post-Murdoch days?

Scrit

 

[andy king]

Couple of points.
Firstly, thanks Mike, I did rejoin to defend myself, and my point was that while Mr Grimsdale made the 'amateur' accusation, I am in fact an City and Guilds indentured joiner and I have 30 years of woodworking experience in a huge variety of roles within it, so hardly the amateur he glibly accused everyone of being.
Scrit, I agree wholeheartedly with you.
I was dumbfounded when I saw the pictures of Tony's plane, but it was too late to do anything as the mag was at the printers. I for one, always bang on about safety issues, i've been on the recieving end of machinery injuries, and I don't like them! It's no excuse for the mag publishing them, they should have been picked up at the editorial stage, but that isn't my role in GW. Hopefully, having told the editor how dangerous I thought it was, he will take a closer look at future projects before we publish.
I know we have discussed safety issues on this forum in the past, you and I, so I think we agree that we are on the same side here!
One thing that did surprise me was Tony's defence that it was safe to do the cuts.
Having read his thread where he filleted his fingers on a router a year or so back, I would have thought he would be very aware of the dangers of sticking his fingers so close, but that's another story.

Andy

 

[Mike.C]

Hi Scrit,

You never read the thread so you had no way of knowing but Andy did say

Andy,

I thought the pictures we published were the most dangerous we have ever done, and made that clear on that thread, I've also informed my Editor about my concerns as well. I'm not prepared to dscuss it further, I know its dangerous, I know we shouldn't have published it, but we have.

EDIT oops we seemed to have crossed over here Andy

Cheers

Mike

 

[Johnboy]

I missed the last day as well so was wondering what all the fuss was about. Interested to hear what Andy had to say but surprised to hear that the Editor seems to have no knowledge of safety, does he have any knowledge of woodworking? I would have thought that it was pretty basic journalism to get articles checked for major safety issue before printing.

John

ps. Bring back Jacob.

 

[Scrit]

Thank you Andy and Mike for clarifying that for me. I was curious as to what had happened, especially as Jacob and I had crossed swords in the past over Whitehill blocks, but then I once liked French cutters and they can be real digit removers so I'd never, ever recommend them, especially to an inexperienced spindle user!

Like Andy the comments I made about personal injuries were real enough - the oddest thing about slicing yourself is the fact that you don't realise where the claret is coming from (at first), you're more concerned with not marking the workpiece! (I've discussed this with a number of tradesmen and they all agree) It's the consequences which aren't so nice. If you are lucky it all heals up, but even scar tissue can get in the way and reduce sense of touch as well as mobility. Hence the admonitions to work safely from some people like me

Scrit

 

[wizer]

Good God people, lets wipe our mouth and move on eh? Lets not turn this into just another internet forum where more time is spent bickering than exchanging useful information and friendly advice.

 

[Mike.C]

Scrit,

Like Andy the comments I made about personal injuries were real enough - the oddest thing about slicing yourself is the fact that you don't realise where the claret is coming from (at first), you're more concerned with not marking the workpiece!

:lol: Ha ha ha, your right there Scrit. I have had blood pouring out of a cut, and SWMBO trying to wrap it up and all I am worried about is not getting anything on the piece of rosewood, your so right :wink:

Cheers

 

[DomValente]

I thought this discussion was fairly amusing, until I saw this,

Woodbloke wrote:

this is Charley's site and he is the 'Boss of Bosses' (sorry Dom )

Now things are going to get nasty

Oh, and by the way A_n_g_e_l_a , in reply to your question,"were shall we go ?" In those shoes, anywhere you like.

Smile, life's too short .

Dom

 

[NeilO]

My thoughts....

the topic was raised, and the thread obviously broke at least one rule, for the Mods to ban/delete it...

I hope Jacob (Mr Grimsdale) does come back, as I feel his opinion , is just that....and as such he is entitled to it ( right or wrong ) because if we are denied this whats the point???

Not wanting to push my luck, but should not the Mods have picked up this thread earlier, seeing which way it was heading and warning to the user/s of a possible breach of the rules ( sorry Charley , if this had already been done(not being privvy to such matters))

anyway , its done, and dusted

and like Dom sez "Life`s too short"

 

[Scrit]

Oh, and by the way A_n_g_e_l_a , in reply to your question,"were shall we go ?" In those shoes, anywhere you like.

Angela, I think you have the beginning of a fan club here...... :wink:

 

[JFC]

the topic was raised, and the thread obviously broke at least one rule, for the Mods to ban/delete it...

So you think i should be banned for asking why a very knowledgable member of the forum has been banned ? Fair enough , if i have to read that kind of rubbish then i'm happy to go . :roll:

 

[Jake]

I know Mr G expresses himself michievously at times, but I find the self-righteous crowd/cabal on the other side of those debates much more unpleasant and vituperative. Including in that thread, that day.

 

[A_n_g_e_l_a]

Angela, I think you have the beginning of a fan club here...... :wink:

How nice! But don't get excited! I have had a final warning from Neil the Mod. I guess I probably won't be here long!