Hardpoint saws vs resharpenable

[gold_bantam]

Hi all,

Richard Maguire makes a compelling case for using a hardpoint saw for ripping by hand. The Best Rip Saws? Making Thick Cuts. Hand Tool Woodworking

Just wondering what people's thoughts are on this. I love non disposable good quality tools as much as the next woodworker, but the article and video got me thinking. How many saw files am I likely to burn through, and they seem to be about £14 a piece now, and overall there is probably more metal going into disposal from files than the disposable saw. I guess the grim plastic handles can't be recycled whereas at least old files can go to metal recycling.

My other issue is I actually find the wooden handle on my Spear and Jackson quite uncomfortable, and the Canadian Disston I used to have was the same. I suspect the hardpoint handles are at least comfortable for use? I guess I should look at modifying the wooden handle but there's a million other projects I'd like to do first.

I should say I'm not an experienced handsaw user and as a weekend woodworker haven't had to replace my saw files yet.

Thank you.

 

[Noel]

Bahco Barracuda, a tenner or so. Better handle, more comfy than the basic Bahco, thicker steel for the blade.
For two quid more they do a Superior, nice black Teflon-ish coating and no rusting.

 

[steve355]

If you are a weekend woodworker your saw may need resharpening every few years. So cost of saw files is negligible.

Disposable saws are good for modern builders.

 

[thetyreman]

I don't use a hardpoint except for materials like chipboard, MDF and plywood, solid woods I stick to sharpenable old saws.

 

[Orraloon]

I would say if you cant sharpen a saw then get the disposable. It will rip after a fashion and cross cut not too bad. Better than getting nowhere with a blunt saw. It gives you something to work with. That said while you are at it find an old rip saw and a file and have a go at learning to sharpen for later on. Its not all that hard. Then when the harddpoint gets blunt you are ready to go with with a nice sharp saw.
Regards
John

 

[mark w]

Hi all,

Richard Maguire makes a compelling case for using a hardpoint saw for ripping by hand. The Best Rip Saws? Making Thick Cuts. Hand Tool Woodworking

Just wondering what people's thoughts are on this. I love non disposable good quality tools as much as the next woodworker, but the article and video got me thinking. How many saw files am I likely to burn through, and they seem to be about £14 a piece now, and overall there is probably more metal going into disposal from files than the disposable saw. I guess the grim plastic handles can't be recycled whereas at least old files can go to metal recycling.

My other issue is I actually find the wooden handle on my Spear and Jackson quite uncomfortable, and the Canadian Disston I used to have was the same. I suspect the hardpoint handles are at least comfortable for use? I guess I should look at modifying the wooden handle but there's a million other projects I'd like to do first.

I should say I'm not an experienced handsaw user and as a weekend woodworker haven't had to replace my saw files yet.

Thank you.

I really don't know how you can watch this bloke, "the straight talking northerner", a lot of what he says is complete nonsense. "The jarring" of his rip saw, perhaps, just maybe, he can't sharpen a saw as well as well as he thinks he can. The main thing he didn't mention is that a Japanese saw removes less wood due to its finer kerf, making it a bit less work to use. I'm also not sure why he's going through so many saw files, buy some better quality ones.
I fully agree with him about a bandsaw though.

 

[clogs]

hard point all the way.......
who can be

to waste time sharpening......
besides ripping and cross cutting is faster using a circ or chop saw......
I have no probs with a pit saw......

 

[undergroundhunter]

When I watched this I thought it was puzzling, so currently a Nicholson 150mm slim taper saw file can be had for about £5.50ish you would get at least 6 sharpens from this file (as long as you're not using excessive pressure or re profiling a saw) so how is that more expensive than a decent hard point like the bacho?
Hardpoints also tend to have a wider kerf than necessary so they take more effort to cut than a well set saw, then there is tooth profile, hardpoints are designed for crosscutting so are not going to be as efficient as ripping as a saw that has the correct tooth geometry for ripping.
Try ripping with one and then try it with a sharp coarse rip saw, i know which one id rather use.

Matt

 

[Jameshow]

I tend to use a resharpenable saw in workshop but hardpoint out and about. Having said that I'd use a table saw to rip anyway!!

 

[deema]

If the wooden handle is uncomfortable, just reshape it until it is comfortable. It’s what all the old timers did. A standard handle won’t suit everyone’s hand.
The difference is night and day between a hard point and a resharpenable saw in terms of user experience, the biggest difference is the kerf of a hard point is too wide, this makes it harder to saw straight as well as requiring more physical effort. A hard point has a generic tooth sharpened pattern, not good for any specific task, but OK at all ish. It creates a lot of blow out at the back of the cut.

Sharpening a saw is easy, it’s not mystic Meg stuff. I’ve done a thread on how to do it which I know a number have tried on here and all seem to have got good results. When I first wrote it (offer now closed) I offered to sharpen anyone’s saw who had a go and failed…….I had no takers!

 

[Adam W.]

Hi all,

Richard Maguire makes a compelling case for using a hardpoint saw for ripping by hand. The Best Rip Saws? Making Thick Cuts. Hand Tool Woodworking

Just wondering what people's thoughts are on this. I love non disposable good quality tools as much as the next woodworker, but the article and video got me thinking. How many saw files am I likely to burn through, and they seem to be about £14 a piece now, and overall there is probably more metal going into disposal from files than the disposable saw. I guess the grim plastic handles can't be recycled whereas at least old files can go to metal recycling.

My other issue is I actually find the wooden handle on my Spear and Jackson quite uncomfortable, and the Canadian Disston I used to have was the same. I suspect the hardpoint handles are at least comfortable for use? I guess I should look at modifying the wooden handle but there's a million other projects I'd like to do first.

I should say I'm not an experienced handsaw user and as a weekend woodworker haven't had to replace my saw files yet.

Thank you.

My thoughts are this......

Which is why I spent a bit of money with those two in Scarborough the other day.

 

[gold_bantam]

Thanks everyone. It seems pretty clear cut. I'm going to stick with my resharpenables then. Most concerning is the wide kerf that many have mentioned on a hardpoint. I think I will try a hardpoint out though, personal experience is always the best teacher.

That's interesting about the Nicholson files. Never tried them but I was under the impression that they are useless within one sharpening session, hence the price difference between them and Bahco or Vallorbe. I shall have to try them.

I think you are right that as a weekend woodworker I should only need to sharpen every year, even at every six months I should get a few years out of a file.

 

[Adam W.]

You should touch up your saws more often, not only to keep them sharp but to perfect your filing and setting technique.

Treat them like a plane and chisel and working with wood becomes a joy.

 

[Jacob]

Thanks everyone. It seems pretty clear cut. I'm going to stick with my resharpenables then. Most concerning is the wide kerf that many have mentioned on a hardpoint. I think I will try a hardpoint out though, personal experience is always the best teacher.

That's interesting about the Nicholson files. Never tried them but I was under the impression that they are useless within one sharpening session, hence the price difference between them and Bahco or Vallorbe. I shall have to try them.

I think you are right that as a weekend woodworker I should only need to sharpen every year, even at every six months I should get a few years out of a file.

Wide kerf isn't really an issue as you need a bit of set to avoid having the blade jam. I don't think a thin blade would speed things up particularly, if anything the opposite.
On the subject of ripping - there's a modern fashion for "ripping" saw stools with a slot down the middle. I guess somebody was desperate for a magazine topic to write and invented this unnecessary item, and it caught on.
The old way with two saw horses is much easier and you don't need specially made kit cluttering up the workshop. Rip-sawing by hand

 

[deema]

Dug up the thread on resharpening saw, you might find it helpful.

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/thread...and-re-teething-of-a-99p-saw-completed.98494/

 

[gold_bantam]

Dug up the thread on resharpening saw, you might find it helpful.

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/thread...and-re-teething-of-a-99p-saw-completed.98494/

Thanks, yes this is very helpful and much more detail than where I have previously learned sharpening.

 

[thetyreman]

it takes me a about 10 minutes to sharpen a saw on average, maybe 20 if it's much finer, sharpening a big rip saw could not be easier.

 

[johnnyb]

I'm more philosophical these days having been a purist for a while..it's about creation. any which way. when these saws were things there was no alternative. don't allow dogma to stop you creating. I'm really not interested in what saw you used to crosscut your masterpiece. only that it's a good cut.

 

[sawtooth-9]

I would rather spend my time setting up a good cut with a hard point saw, than sitting there with a file sharpening.
Before cheap ( and good ) hard points, I used to sharpen my saws - but these days, not necessary.
Question is - is the process more important than the the result ?
Any tool is just that - a tool to achieve a result.

 

[Adam W.]

Having an experimental archaeology fetish, for me the process is equal to the result.

I also like not having to go to places like B&Q. Saw's blunt....get the file out and sharpen it.