Hancock's Half Hour

[AJB Temple]

Actually Roger, the media and some politicos are fond of telling us what the public think, but generally I think this can be taken with two grains of salt as unless there is a wide ranging and unbiased survey, media prejudice and wishful thinking leads the editorials.

I suspect a large proportion of the British public don't know the facts, probably don't know who DC is and probably don't care either.

 

[RogerS]

Actually Roger, the media and some politicos are fond of telling us what the public think, but generally I think this can be taken with two grains of salt as unless there is a wide ranging and unbiased survey, media prejudice and wishful thinking leads the editorials.

I suspect a large proportion of the British public don't know the facts, probably don't know who DC is and probably don't care either.

It depends on your definition of a large proportion. BBC News has an audience (according to a survey in 2019) of a quarter of adults. BBc One for news is 58% and ITV 38%. Third most used news service is Facebook.

So, actually I think that a lot more people that you might think know who he is, and will have formed a view. There will also be a huge amount of social media chatter.

EDIT: the top two trending on Twitter at the moment are, indeed, Cummings.

This made me smile

 

[Andy Kev.]

I agree with AJB Temple on this. It seems to me that it is a confected storm in a Westminster teacup. Meanwhile the rest of the country will see that Cummings was trying to make the best arrangements for the welfare of his child in the case of him and his wife falling ill.

Much has been made of the distance he travelled (216 miles) but it seems to me that it doesn't matter if you go 216 or 0.216 - you've got the windows up so you are not posing a danger to anyone else. And given that he was trying to sort out his kid's welfare, what else could he have done? Compare his case to the two who had to resign; the Scottish doc who broke the rules because she fancied it and Prof Ferguson and his bird who broke the rules because they wanted to get their leg over. Two trivial cases vs. one serious one.

Cummings has got a lot of enemies, ranging from the BBC to the loony left. Hence all the fuss but if Boris sticks to his guns, it will all die down and I reckon that most fair minded people will have a degree of understanding for Cummings' actions.

 

[Garno]

So the call is for Dominic Cummins to be sacked for breaking the lockdown, He is an advisor and not an MP, if he were an MP I think I would join in the cry for his dismissal and say one rule for one and another rule for others.

Tahir Ali .. Labour MP for Birminham Green attended a funeral with 100 other mourners, not a single person on here has said he should step down or be sacked.

Stephen Kinnock .. Labour MP for Aberavon South Wales travelled from Wales to London to visit his parents, not a single person on here has said he should step down or be sacked.

Robert Jenrick Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Local Government .. Conservative travelled 150 miles to deliver food to his parents (He says) Press and media had a field day calling for him to resign.

Keven Jones .. Labour MP for Durham attended a birthday party, not a single person on here has said he should step down or be sacked.

So there does seem to be one law for one and another law for everyone else or perhaps it is just sour grapes.

 

[Chris152]

In my view the media, who love conflict, have largely whipped up a storm in a tea cup. DC's partner got Covid and in short order he came down with it too. We do not know his family circumstances and I for one will not criticise a man who did his best to keep his young family safe. All this holier than thou stuff from the media and politicians on a bandwagon is so pointless: surely we expect our politicians to focus on stuff that really matters, for example the absolutely massive economic mess we are in.

Plenty of people who know cummings's personal circumstances well enough, and on the same 'team', are being highly critical of him and are offering their opinions to the media. The emotive (and apparently 'instinctive') 'keeping his young family safe' is all well and good, but the idea was that we stayed home to keep everyone else safe too. No 'holier than thou stuff', real anger from great swathes of the population who've abided by the spirit of the lock down. Pretending the economy's a separate and greater matter than public perception of measures to stop the virus spreading is a reflection of your priorities.

 

[Blockplane]

So the call is for Dominic Cummins to be sacked for breaking the lockdown, He is an advisor and not an MP, if he were an MP I think I would join in the cry for his dismissal and say one rule for one and another rule for others.

Tahir Ali .. Labour MP for Birminham Green attended a funeral with 100 other mourners, not a single person on here has said he should step down or be sacked.

Stephen Kinnock .. Labour MP for Aberavon South Wales travelled from Wales to London to visit his parents, not a single person on here has said he should step down or be sacked.

Robert Jenrick Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Local Government .. Conservative travelled 150 miles to deliver food to his parents (He says) Press and media had a field day calling for him to resign.

Keven Jones .. Labour MP for Durham attended a birthday party, not a single person on here has said he should step down or be sacked.

So there does seem to be one law for one and another law for everyone else or perhaps it is just sour grapes.

OK - I'll say it - all of the above should stand down or be sacked.

 

[Andy Kev.]

In my view the media, who love conflict, have largely whipped up a storm in a tea cup. DC's partner got Covid and in short order he came down with it too. We do not know his family circumstances and I for one will not criticise a man who did his best to keep his young family safe. All this holier than thou stuff from the media and politicians on a bandwagon is so pointless: surely we expect our politicians to focus on stuff that really matters, for example the absolutely massive economic mess we are in.

Plenty of people who know cummings's personal circumstances well enough, and on the same 'team', are being highly critical of him and are offering their opinions to the media. The emotive (and apparently 'instinctive') 'keeping his young family safe' is all well and good, but the idea was that we stayed home to keep everyone else safe too. No 'holier than thou stuff', real anger from great swathes of the population who've abided by the spirit of the lock down. Pretending the economy's a separate and greater matter than public perception of measures to stop the virus spreading is a reflection of your priorities.

I've just been watching a chunk of his press conference. His justification is that both he and his wife were coming down with symptoms and his wife was not sure that she would be well enough to be able to look after the child. He was concerned that he might become seriously ill as well and on the next day that was the case although his wife's condition did not deteriorate further.

He had an offer from family members of an isolated house and his 17 year old niece offered to help out with the child. To take up the offer he drove north on a full tank of petrol without stopping. This all seems reasonable enough.

One of the journalists at the press conference asked (ridiculously in my view) if it was right of him to take advantage of the offer of an isolated house when other people who had the disease did not have such things at their disposal. He showed more restraint than I would have done by not pointing out the absurdity of the question. Anybody who has a potentially life threatening disease and who has children will use all the resources at their disposal to make the best of the situation.

He pointed out that had he stayed in London and had both he and his wife become incapable, then other people would have had to become exposed to the disease by entering their house to look after the child.

It looks increasingly as if the criticism of him is petulant and overwhelmingly politically motivated.

BTW I don't think that Kinnock's son did anything wrong in visiting his dad as he also drove to see him and then maintained social distancing while sitting with him out of doors. Compare that to Prof Ferguson.

 

[Chris152]

In my view the media, who love conflict, have largely whipped up a storm in a tea cup. DC's partner got Covid and in short order he came down with it too. We do not know his family circumstances and I for one will not criticise a man who did his best to keep his young family safe. All this holier than thou stuff from the media and politicians on a bandwagon is so pointless: surely we expect our politicians to focus on stuff that really matters, for example the absolutely massive economic mess we are in.

Plenty of people who know cummings's personal circumstances well enough, and on the same 'team', are being highly critical of him and are offering their opinions to the media. The emotive (and apparently 'instinctive') 'keeping his young family safe' is all well and good, but the idea was that we stayed home to keep everyone else safe too. No 'holier than thou stuff', real anger from great swathes of the population who've abided by the spirit of the lock down. Pretending the economy's a separate and greater matter than public perception of measures to stop the virus spreading is a reflection of your priorities.

I've just been watching a chunk of his press conference. His justification is that both he and his wife were coming down with symptoms and his wife was not sure that she would be well enough to be able to look after the child. He was concerned that he might become seriously ill as well and on the next day that was the case although his wife's condition did not deteriorate further.

He had an offer from family members of an isolated house and his 17 year old niece offered to help out with the child. To take up the offer he drove north on a full tank of petrol without stopping. This all seems reasonable enough.

One of the journalists at the press conference asked (ridiculously in my view) if it was right of him to take advantage of the offer of an isolated house when other people who had the disease did not have such things at their disposal. He showed more restraint than I would have done by not pointing out the absurdity of the question. Anybody who has a potentially life threatening disease and who has children will use all the resources at their disposal to make the best of the situation.

He pointed out that had he stayed in London and had both he and his wife become incapable, then other people would have had to become exposed to the disease by entering their house to look after the child.

It looks increasingly as if the criticism of him is petulant and overwhelmingly politically motivated.

Govt advice was if any member of your family gets the virus you stay in isolation 14 days. He decided to take to the road for several hours instead. We can all find little loopholes that might let us get away with things. Maybe I could call this essential travel?
I could probably get away with surfing now here in Wales, the beaches we go to are 'local'. But I'm not because it's clearly against the spirit of the lockdown. It's driving me nuts but I'm sticking to it and so's my boy, who's struggling because i won't take him for what's hitherto been an essential, healthy part of his life.
We're not looking for loopholes. The man that wrote the rules we've been following did.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Whether he was right or wrong is largely indifferent. He helped write the rules that we, the proles are supposed to obey. He is a (the?) government advisor - what advice would he have given to a member of government proposing to do as he did? I'll tell you - don't do it, you cretin, if you wish to retain any credibility whatsoever.

 

[Andy Kev.]

[
Govt advice was if any member of your family gets the virus you stay in isolation 14 days. He decided to take to the road for several hours instead. We can all find little loopholes that might let us get away with things. Maybe I could call this essential travel?
I could probably get away with surfing now here in Wales, the beaches we go to are 'local'. But I'm not because it's clearly against the spirit of the lockdown. It's driving me nuts but I'm sticking to it and so's my boy, who's struggling because i won't take him for what's hitherto been an essential, healthy part of his life.
We're not looking for loopholes. The man that wrote the rules we've been following did.

Fair enough but we all know that guidelines from big bureaucracies rarely manage to cover all eventualities. I personally couldn't imagine breaking any guidelines or laws for frivolous or purely selfish purposes. However, I certainly would (and have often enough in the past) when I with a 100% clear conscience believe that I know better. I'm not suggesting of course that I actually do know better but one has to go along with one's judgement.

He seems to have taken a similar line and his justifications seem reasonable. However, nobody who is politically opposed to him will entertain the tiniest possibility of his reasonableness. This cheap politics is why I tend to dismiss the fuss currently being made. Were somebody able to point out that his actions had posed a danger to others, I would be inclined to agree but that wasn't the case and he seems to me to have come up with a neat and tidy solution to a dilemma which ensured that nobody was endangered and of course that his child was optimally cared for.

 

[Garno]

Whether he was right or wrong is largely indifferent. He helped write the rules that we, the proles are supposed to obey. He is a (the?) government advisor - what advice would he have given to a member of government proposing to do as he did? I'll tell you - don't do it, you cretin, if you wish to retain any credibility whatsoever.

I am struggling a little to see if you think he was wrong for what he did or if he was wrong for what he did because of the position of advisor that he holds. He claims to of been in contact with no one else on the journey, whilst that does not make what he did right it cetainly lessons the risk than if he had been in contact with others.

On the other hand Tahir Ali was with 100 other people many of whom were not known to him, Keven Jones celebrating VE rememberance by attending a party, again with strangers. For some reason people think that Dominic Cummins has potentially put more people at risk than the other two. What he did was foolish what the other two did was criminal.

 

[Chris152]

[
Govt advice was if any member of your family gets the virus you stay in isolation 14 days. He decided to take to the road for several hours instead. We can all find little loopholes that might let us get away with things. Maybe I could call this essential travel?
I could probably get away with surfing now here in Wales, the beaches we go to are 'local'. But I'm not because it's clearly against the spirit of the lockdown. It's driving me nuts but I'm sticking to it and so's my boy, who's struggling because i won't take him for what's hitherto been an essential, healthy part of his life.
We're not looking for loopholes. The man that wrote the rules we've been following did.

Fair enough but we all know that guidelines from big bureaucracies rarely manage to cover all eventualities. I personally couldn't imagine breaking any guidelines or laws for frivolous or purely selfish purposes. However, I certainly would (and have often enough in the past) when I with a 100% clear conscience believe that I know better. I'm not suggesting of course that I actually do know better but one has to go along with one's judgement.

He seems to have taken a similar line and his justifications seem reasonable. However, nobody who is politically opposed to him will entertain the tiniest possibility of his reasonableness. This cheap politics is why I tend to dismiss the fuss currently being made. Were somebody able to point out that his actions had posed a danger to others, I would be inclined to agree but that wasn't the case and he seems to me to have come up with a neat and tidy solution to a dilemma which ensured that nobody was endangered and of course that his child was optimally cared for.

Sorry A-K, I'm struggling to read your post, something might be up with my eyesight. I'm just gonna pop out for an umpteen mile drive to a popular tourist destination to test my eyes to see if they're ok. Back later...

 

[woodhutt]

Here's a shorter interview with someone else so less interesting i think, but has the connection (Cummings breaks own slogans):
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/vi ... o-go-video

Thanks for the link Chris.
So, as I understand it from that short clip, Cummings came up with an ad campaign regarding the pandemic restrictions. He didn't devise the policy, he simply articulated it on behalf of the government. By extension, every advertising executive has to believe that Rinso really does get your wash whiter.
I still can't see that he did anything heinous. Our (successful) lock down regime here permitted contact between 'bubbles' e.g. family groups. The important factor being the ability to contact trace.
If I have grasped the facts correctly, Cummings and frau were concerned they were infected and wanted to get their children to the grandparents. Presumably the grandparents were prepared to accept the risk of contact - it's what most grandparents would do. This did not appear to involve contact with any other members of the public.
Now we have those who defied the guidelines (actually, to hell with the confusing guidelines - they displayed no common sense and a complete disregard for others health) and flocked to the beaches, parks etc. not observing social distancing, not wearing masks to protect others and so on. A totally selfish act.
Then there are Cummings' detractors and those calling for his sacking. How many of them are driven by the desire for payback? (I'm sure DC has trodden on many toes during his career). Joe Public's call for his sacking is more understandable as a reaction to what they've had to endure (and are continuing to endure) as a result of the pandemic. They want blood and the higher profile blood, the better.
So, as I said in an earlier post, issue DC with an infringement, prosecute the case and if found guilty, fine him. Whatever your politics are, if you keep sacking capable people you'll end up with idiots running the show.
Pete

 

[Rorschach]

OK - I'll say it - all of the above should stand down or be sacked.

The problem is it is not you that needs to say, it's the media and the twitterati. They harp on about "one rule for them..." when they are total hypocrites when it suits them and ignore those they support.

I don't think any of them should be sacked, I think they should own their mistakes as human beings, apologise and not do it again, but it doesn't warrant losing their jobs.

 

[Trainee neophyte]

OK - I'll say it - all of the above should stand down or be sacked.

The problem is it is not you that needs to say, it's the media and the twitterati. They harp on about "one rule for them..." when they are total hypocrites when it suits them and ignore those they support.

I don't think any of them should be sacked, I think they should own their mistakes as human beings, apologise and not do it again, but it doesn't warrant losing their jobs.

I did happen to catch the scrum around his car yesterday with the media baying for blood. Were they all socially distancing? Were they all behaving with impeccable moral uprightness? They have put themselves up as arbiters of the public safety, and yet...

This is a different moment, but much the same. It's hard to take "journalists" seriously.

[youtube]Miz_7XPV74U[/youtube]

 

[woodhutt]

Just an aside.
In my last post and one previous I have attempted to use the word 'f locked'.
The algorithm seems to have seen this as a naughty word and changed it to 'messed' (I would have thought 'massed'would have been a better choice).
I hate to think what it would do if I ever used the expression 'f lock of sheep'.
I'd probably end up with a visit from the SPCA and accused of unnatural practices.
Pete

 

[Chris152]

Whatever your politics are, if you keep sacking capable people you'll end up with idiots running the show.

Thought we already had that.

 

[Andy Kev.]

Sorry A-K, I'm struggling to read your post, something might be up with my eyesight. I'm just gonna pop out for an umpteen mile drive to a popular tourist destination to test my eyes to see if they're ok. Back later...

Unfortunately that's very typical of what passes for "debate" on the internet these days.

Now while I wouldn't be surprised to get that sort of thing from a 19 y.o. sociology undergraduate, I've seen enough of your thoughts on here to know that you can do an awful lot better than that.

I strongly suspect that he is for you above all a political target and such a juicy target as to be irresistible. We're all capable of being susceptible to that kind of temptation of course but the trick is not to let it lead us to dispensing with our sense of fair judgement. For instance, I hold much of what Kinnock Jr. stands for in contempt but I can't see much wrong with him visiting his dad in the manner he did.

OTH the MP who attended a birthday party (I don't know what his politics are) was clearly acting irresponsibly. I don't think that anyone can lay the charge of being irresponsible at Cummings' door.

 

[Chris152]

Sorry A-K, I'm struggling to read your post, something might be up with my eyesight. I'm just gonna pop out for an umpteen mile drive to a popular tourist destination to test my eyes to see if they're ok. Back later...

Unfortunately that's very typical of what passes for "debate" on the internet these days.

Now while I wouldn't be surprised to get that sort of thing from a 19 y.o. sociology undergraduate, I've seen enough of your thoughts on here to know that you can do an awful lot better than that.

I strongly suspect that he is for you above all a political target and such a juicy target as to be irresistible. We're all capable of being susceptible to that kind of temptation of course but the trick is not to let it lead us to dispensing with our sense of fair judgement. For instance, I hold much of what Kinnock Jr. stands for in contempt but I can't see much wrong with him visiting his dad in the manner he did.

OTH the MP who attended a birthday party (I don't know what his politics are) was clearly acting irresponsibly. I don't think that anyone can lay the charge of being irresponsible at Cummings' door.

Humour A-k. And no i have no interest whatsoever in the petty politics of all this. Once again you want to reduce discussion to that level but I'm just not interested. Sorry.

 

[RogerS]

Listened to Cummings. A complete fabrication from start to finish. Driving to Barnards Castle to see if I was OK to drive. That's BS. He thinks he's above the rest of us and the rules don't apply to him. He should go.