Hancock's Half Hour

[rafezetter]

Anyone picked up on the unexpected implication of bloody Brexit? ow we're going to lose that magic E111 card, it really puts the mockers on leaving the UK for a European holiday. All travel insurance that I've seen excludes Covid-19 now. So it's a lottery going away now. If it's a seven day break then perhaps not too bad unless you pick it up the first day you get there and have a fast severe reaction. How are you going to pay for your hospital care or repatriation ? Or you might already be infected before you go out but not know it.

The longer you extend your holiday, the worse the odds become.

Surely that wasn't a surprise.I well remember an elderly joiner telling me how disgusted he was about foreigners coming here and being treated by the NHS-the subtext was that he was contributing to the cost.He also believed that we wouldn't get treated in other countries,not that he had ever been to any.It gave me a good deal of pleasure to show him an E111 and explain how it worked and now I share your sadness that it won't work for very much longer.The greater worry is that the Covid virus looks like being rather hard to eradicate and will be an intrusion into our lives for a very long time,maybe forever.We need a recovery plan and a part of it will have to map out a way to keep us off crowded public transport.Maybe its time to encourage businesses to disperse themselves from London and to reinvigorate some of the more remote towns.We ought to have learned that with a decent internet connection a good deal of work can be done outside a central office.We also have plenty of communities that would benefit from some high earning jobs being created in their midst.I suppose it will need a mindset that isn't limited to doing things the way we have always done them because thats the way we have always done them.

I personally feel right or wrong that the E111 will continue to work as before, because it applies to ALL OF THEM as well, or has that slipped your mind that we have millions of europeans working here, that retain thier eurozone nationalities?

I'm sure even the most spiteful of eurozone MEP will understand "cut your nose off to spite your face" isn't a great career move.

Some will argue moreUK holidaymakers go to the eurozone each year than the other direction, but a hella lot come here to work, and more to visit london and other places - to abolish the "*** for tat" of the E111 would be very foolish on both sides.

Will it affect our travel insurance? Probably - any excuse to put the premiums up - but will it mean a USA style "you have to pay £100,000 for your care and repatriation"?

Absolutely not - for a dozen "knock on" effect reasons if that happened.

It's scaremongering for the gullible.

 

[Lons]

Cummins did himself no favours today and his explanations smacked very strongly of b/s however if what he said about no contact with others including his parents and that the woods were private property is true I for one can identify with his actions if faced ( probably ) with a wife in a blind panic over her child's welfare and I might well have done the same if it came to a choice between rules and my family.
I don't know, all I'm saying is that decisions made under stress can often look stupid later.

That press farce today was another huge error as the guy is clearly arrogant and came across as such however the reporters were hell bent on blood and the way some of the questions were posed was reprehensible and also shows the calibre of the media just as does the video posted by TN where they are all over him, one actually pushed him in the back, they refused to back away and wouldn't even allow him to close the car door. I would suggest perhaps the police should be looking at those reporters involved in that episode as I view people shouting in your face at very close range as assault in today's climate.

 

[Jake]

Listened to Cummings. A complete fabrication from start to finish. Driving to Barnards Castle to see if I was OK to drive. That's BS. He thinks he's above the rest of us and the rules don't apply to him. He should go.

The biggest giveaway for me as to the extent of the fabrication was that moment when he was asked a question, got confused about the dates, and started trying to work out what date he did something by the day count number since the trigger date for his isolation requirement (on his story). That's just not how honest people recall things, it's how a carefully constructed untruth is rolled out and then the slip-up gives it away.

 

[RogerS]

Anyone picked up on the unexpected implication of bloody Brexit? ow we're going to lose that magic E111 card, it really puts the mockers on leaving the UK for a European holiday. All travel insurance that I've seen excludes Covid-19 now. So it's a lottery going away now. If it's a seven day break then perhaps not too bad unless you pick it up the first day you get there and have a fast severe reaction. How are you going to pay for your hospital care or repatriation ? Or you might already be infected before you go out but not know it.

The longer you extend your holiday, the worse the odds become.

Surely that wasn't a surprise.I well remember an elderly joiner telling me how disgusted he was about foreigners coming here and being treated by the NHS-the subtext was that he was contributing to the cost.He also believed that we wouldn't get treated in other countries,not that he had ever been to any.It gave me a good deal of pleasure to show him an E111 and explain how it worked and now I share your sadness that it won't work for very much longer.The greater worry is that the Covid virus looks like being rather hard to eradicate and will be an intrusion into our lives for a very long time,maybe forever.We need a recovery plan and a part of it will have to map out a way to keep us off crowded public transport.Maybe its time to encourage businesses to disperse themselves from London and to reinvigorate some of the more remote towns.We ought to have learned that with a decent internet connection a good deal of work can be done outside a central office.We also have plenty of communities that would benefit from some high earning jobs being created in their midst.I suppose it will need a mindset that isn't limited to doing things the way we have always done them because thats the way we have always done them.

I personally feel right or wrong that the E111 will continue to work as before, because it applies to ALL OF THEM as well, or has that slipped your mind that we have millions of europeans working here, that retain thier eurozone nationalities?

I'm sure even the most spiteful of eurozone MEP will understand "cut your nose off to spite your face" isn't a great career move.

Some will argue moreUK holidaymakers go to the eurozone each year than the other direction, but a hella lot come here to work, and more to visit london and other places - to abolish the "*** for tat" of the E111 would be very foolish on both sides.

Will it affect our travel insurance? Probably - any excuse to put the premiums up - but will it mean a USA style "you have to pay £100,000 for your care and repatriation"?

Absolutely not - for a dozen "knock on" effect reasons if that happened.

It's scaremongering for the gullible.

I hope that some equivalent to the E111 is put in place, Rafe, because at the moment, you can't get travel insurance that will cover Covid (well, all the usual companies..I'm sure that if you pay a six-figure premium one can get cover !). So going abroad is a gamble.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I read far, far too many cases of the EHIC not being accepted when it should have been to have had any faith it, and I'd take a gamble that in the future if we still had it it wouldn't be honoured for covid.

 

[RogerS]

I read far, far too many cases of the EHIC not being accepted when it should have been to have had any faith it, and I'd take a gamble that in the future if we still had it it wouldn't be honoured for covid.

Well, Phil, I Googled for a bit and couldn't find anyone raging that their card was not accepted. It's always worked for me.

 

[Blackswanwood]

There is quite a bit of misunderstanding about what an E111 EHIC provides.

It doesn’t provide for free health care - it provides healthcare on the same basis as those living in the country enjoy. Several EU countries require payment for treatments that are free under the NHS.

It also does not provide for repatriation costs.

As such it definitely isn’t an alternative to travel insurance.

 

[rafezetter]

I hope that some equivalent to the E111 is put in place, Rafe, because at the moment, you can't get travel insurance that will cover Covid (well, all the usual companies..I'm sure that if you pay a six-figure premium one can get cover !). So going abroad is a gamble.

Right now - absolutely no idea - I was just referring to the larger concern that the E111 will be scrapped and that UK citizens will get screwed for travelling either by not having any insurance or via significantly higher premiums.

For the covid situation immediately after the international flights get resumed, I hope that pressure is put on the insurance industry to provide cover without extortionate premiums, otherwise how does the tourist industry re-start? Millions of people and towns and cities worldwide rely on it for thier livelihoods, and until there is a PROVEN vaccine against it I think (hope) the insurance companies will be forced to give cover INCLUDING covid - or a few companies will see that they can "corner the market" so to speak, look at the actuary tables and decide NOT providing cover in that period would be detrimental to the companies financial health.

Let's not forget travel insurance is given WITHOUT a medical in most cases - and while I'm absolutely not downplaying the severity and threat of covid - the actuary tables of insurance companies might well say the percentage death rate from covid is LESS when all other possibilities are taken into account.

 

[Trainee neophyte]

Let's not forget travel insurance is given WITHOUT a medical in most cases - and while I'm absolutely not downplaying the severity and threat of covid - the actuary tables of insurance companies might well say the percentage death rate from covid is LESS when all other possibilities are taken into account.

I mentioned earlier that Portugal, for one, is considering unilaterally providing UK subjects with equivalent EHIC cover, which will almost certainly mean the other southern Mediterranean countries will follow suit, and will probably infuriate Brussels, as it detracts from their Brexit negotiating advantage (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... hcare-ehic)

Latest from the CDC suggests an overall mortality rate of 0.004%. They also suggest an asymptomatic rate of 35% - not quite as high as the evil Russians, but still pretty high. Influenza apparently has a 0.1% fatality rate, on average, from what I could find (Wikipedia )

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... arios.html

Column 5 is the "current best estimate", based on actual figures. Does this really mean that overall mortality is way lower than we have been led to believe? I obviously don't understand something - perhaps a clever person could point out what I'm not getting.

 

[Rorschach]

There is quite a bit of misunderstanding about what an E111 EHIC provides.

It doesn’t provide for free health care - it provides healthcare on the same basis as those living in the country enjoy. Several EU countries require payment for treatments that are free under the NHS.

It also does not provide for repatriation costs.

As such it definitely isn’t an alternative to travel insurance.

Yes there is, the fact it is misunderstood by people who didn't even know the name had changed is rather telling. :lol:
EHIC is very limiting and you still need travel insurance, as you do when you travel anywhere else in the world. EHIC brings the cost of travel insurance down a little and means you don't have to pay up front for certain services when travelling in the EU but that's basically it.

 

[Blackswanwood]

There is quite a bit of misunderstanding about what an E111 EHIC provides.

It doesn’t provide for free health care - it provides healthcare on the same basis as those living in the country enjoy. Several EU countries require payment for treatments that are free under the NHS.

It also does not provide for repatriation costs.

As such it definitely isn’t an alternative to travel insurance.

Yes there is, the fact it is misunderstood by people who didn't even know the name had changed is rather telling. :lol:
EHIC is very limiting and you still need travel insurance, as you do when you travel anywhere else in the world. EHIC brings the cost of travel insurance down a little and means you don't have to pay up front for certain services when travelling in the EU but that's basically it.

Not sure that there is any correlation between some people continuing to refer to it as E111, EHIC or the full title of E111 EHIC and the level of understanding of what benefit it provides. There are plenty of examples around of things being referenced by versions of their names which have changed over time.

 

[RogerS]

.....
Latest from the CDC suggests an overall mortality rate of 0.004%. ...

I can't be bothered to wade through this document to point out where you have made a mistake but that figure is so out of whack with every single other metric from other studies around the world.

1-2% is generally regarded as the figure.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

From today's Times.

 

[MikeG.]

......Latest from the CDC suggests an overall mortality rate of 0.004%..........

No it doesn't. It gives various ranges, but always they are decimals, not percentages. 0.004 is the same as 0.4%. You stuck a "%" sign on the end of their figures, and thereby changed the figure by 100-fold.

 

[Chris152]

......Latest from the CDC suggests an overall mortality rate of 0.004%..........

No it doesn't. It gives various ranges, but always they are decimals, not percentages. 0.004 is the same as 0.4%. You stuck a "%" sign on the end of their figures, and thereby changed the figure by 100-fold.

Ah, so it's a ratio of .004 to 1? I was feeling quite happy with Tn's summary! :-(

 

[Lons]

I was feeling quite happy with Tn's summary! :-(

Really?
Have you read many of TN's posts? :wink:

 

[Blackswanwood]

For those who enjoy piecing together the data this may be of interest:

https://www.oliverwyman.com/content/dam ... gator1.pdf

The summary of the impact on economies is interesting (and scary)

Exhibit 5 - Track and Trace also jumped out for me.

The final comment that the skills we learn in this current phase of the response may well be useful in dealing with future pandemics is a bit chilling.

 

[Rorschach]

......Latest from the CDC suggests an overall mortality rate of 0.004%..........

No it doesn't. It gives various ranges, but always they are decimals, not percentages. 0.004 is the same as 0.4%. You stuck a "%" sign on the end of their figures, and thereby changed the figure by 100-fold.

Ah, so it's a ratio of .004 to 1? I was feeling quite happy with Tn's summary! :-(

Bear in mind the mortality rate is dropping nearly every day and is almost certain to keep dropping. Mortality is based on deaths from confirmed cases. At the moment there are two factors making it higher, we do not have enough data to show how many cases there are currently or have been, deaths are recorded as "with" C19 not "from" C19. That means the death rate is almost certainly lower than the figures show and the infection rate is absolutely certainly higher than official figures show.

We won't have anything like accurate figures though until we have widespread antibody testing, and even then since autopsies are not being carried out the mortality rate will still be higher than the figures show.

Oh and using worldometer data, worldwide mortality rate is around 6%.

 

[Trainee neophyte]

......Latest from the CDC suggests an overall mortality rate of 0.004%..........

No it doesn't. It gives various ranges, but always they are decimals, not percentages. 0.004 is the same as 0.4%. You stuck a "%" sign on the end of their figures, and thereby changed the figure by 100-fold.

Which explains my confusion. Thank you. It was pretty obvious something was awry, and it makes sense to assume it was me, not the data.

Pig butchering day today - I'm up to my elbows in gore and unpleasantness, so not in the best position to concentrate on epidemiology data. On the other hand I do have a vast amount of prime, pasture fed pork to put in the freezer. This afternoon is sausage time!

 

[Droogs]

jealous TN very jealous