Hancock's Half Hour

[Rorschach]

Don't get hung up on the EHIC card, they weren't terribly useful in the first place, just emergency cover really and you should always have proper travel insurance.

Hopefully going forward the NHS might actually charge other european countries for the healthcare we provide.
https://fullfact.org/health/how-much-do ... -costs-eu/

 

[Andy Kev.]

What tosh. Spoken like a true Brexitear.

I'd like to see some sort of justification for describing what I posted as "tosh".

To complain about the luxurious form of self-indulgence* known as foreign holidays is strictly a first world problem and, as you can imagine or maybe you can't, such complaints are likely to attract very little sympathy indeed.

*Nothing wrong with indulging oneself: we all do it all the time but it is beneficial to be able to recognise it for what it is.

 

[D_W]

We have a local vaccine center here ...who already had a vaccine effort for SARS, so they quickly came up with a patch type (protein needles) vaccine that produces antibodies in mice... we deal with the mind boggling logic that volunteers cannot trial vaccines and be intentionally exposed (not even 20 or 25) because it creates an ethical dilemma...At the pace we're talking about for actual distribution of a viable vaccine (that may never come), everyone will have herd immunity, and I would be surprised if the death rates by country in the end are much different.

David, at the risk of being super-cynical ("moi??") can you extrapolate from your comments and consider a less-than-ethical superpower, not far from your western borders, who WOULD 'accidentally' trial any given promising vaccine (on dissidents, say?)... If successful, where would that put them in terms of dominance?

Maybe I'm just too stir-crazy, depressed and Orwellian....

Maybe I'm being naive about the trial of vaccines elsewhere. The same system that developed the patch vaccine here is already managing five private hospitals in China.

 

[RogerS]

What tosh. Spoken like a true Brexitear.

I'd like to see some sort of justification for describing what I posted as "tosh".

To complain about the luxurious form of self-indulgence* known as foreign holidays is strictly a first world problem and, as you can imagine or maybe you can't, such complaints are likely to attract very little sympathy indeed.

*Nothing wrong with indulging oneself: we all do it all the time but it is beneficial to be able to recognise it for what it is.

Just where shall I start ? You're conflating so many different concepts. Plus introducing virtue-signalling ...

"Indulgence" ? First world luxury ? Define 'luxury' . Is buying a season ticket to ManU a luxury ? Going to the opera ? All value-judgements that you are not entitled to make.

Try engaging brain first. What one is actually talking about is disposable income . OK...a lot of people don't have any. That's life. Maybe you think we should all go back to using handplanes because someone, somewhere in the world cannot afford to buy a thicknesser ?

So stop preaching.

 

[RogerS]

Don't get hung up on the EHIC card, they weren't terribly useful in the first place, just emergency cover really and you should always have proper travel insurance.

Hopefully going forward the NHS might actually charge other european countries for the healthcare we provide.
https://fullfact.org/health/how-much-do ... -costs-eu/

I took you off Ignore to see what your latest troll was. Do you actually read what anyone writes before trolling ?

1) E111 cards "weren't terribly useful". Evidence ? Source of your sweeping statement ? Troll comment ?

"Just emergency cover only". No sh*t, Sherlock. That's one of the key reasons that they were in place FFS and they worked extremely well. "Emergency cover" ? Oh silly me, Covid-19 "is just like flu"...your words. Yeah, right 30,000 deaths and counting.

2) "You should have proper travel insurance". You didn't bother to read what I wrote did you before going off on a troll. I cannot find any travel insurance that will cover you for Covid related events.

3) You have posted twice on different threads a one-liner ...'The fines are illegal anyway". No-one bit, thankfully. Another troll.

4) IIRC you also said elsewhere that "We went into lockdown too early"..."we shouldn't have gone into lockdown..blah..blah blah" when actually what you meant to say was that 'My business selling trinkets to rich people has just gone down the pan because of lockdown. ' and so lockdown shouldn't have happened.

Here's a fact for you. Greece..2700 infected cases. 150 or so deaths. Why ? They went into lockdown immediately they had a case. Do not pass Go. Do not collect £200. They didn't dither like Boris. How many deaths have we had as a result ?

Anyway, back on Ignore.

 

[Trainee neophyte]

What tosh. Spoken like a true Brexitear.

I'd like to see some sort of justification for describing what I posted as "tosh".

To complain about the luxurious form of self-indulgence* known as foreign holidays is strictly a first world problem and, as you can imagine or maybe you can't, such complaints are likely to attract very little sympathy indeed.

*Nothing wrong with indulging oneself: we all do it all the time but it is beneficial to be able to recognise it for what it is.

Just where shall I start ? You're conflating so many different concepts. Plus introducing virtue-signalling ...

"Indulgence" ? First world luxury ? Define 'luxury' . Is buying a season ticket to ManU a luxury ? Going to the opera ? All value-judgements that you are not entitled to make.

Try engaging brain first. What one is actually talking about is disposable income . OK...a lot of people don't have any. That's life. Maybe you think we should all go back to using handplanes because someone, somewhere in the world cannot afford to buy a thicknesser ?

So stop preaching.

Not that I care, but why is it important for UK taxpayers to subsidize your holiday insurance? The people without disposable income may be interested to know.

 

[RogerS]

I'd like to see some sort of justification for describing what I posted as "tosh".

To complain about the luxurious form of self-indulgence* known as foreign holidays is strictly a first world problem and, as you can imagine or maybe you can't, such complaints are likely to attract very little sympathy indeed.

*Nothing wrong with indulging oneself: we all do it all the time but it is beneficial to be able to recognise it for what it is.

Just where shall I start ? You're conflating so many different concepts. Plus introducing virtue-signalling ...

"Indulgence" ? First world luxury ? Define 'luxury' . Is buying a season ticket to ManU a luxury ? Going to the opera ? All value-judgements that you are not entitled to make.

Try engaging brain first. What one is actually talking about is disposable income . OK...a lot of people don't have any. That's life. Maybe you think we should all go back to using handplanes because someone, somewhere in the world cannot afford to buy a thicknesser ?

So stop preaching.

Not that I care, but why is it important for UK taxpayers to subsidize your holiday insurance? The people without disposable income may be interested to know.

TN...how on earth have you come to that conclusion ? Where did I say that ? Bizarre-world, TN, you live in.

 

[Trainee neophyte]

Not that I care, but why is it important for UK taxpayers to subsidize your holiday insurance? The people without disposable income may be interested to know.

TN...how on earth have you come to that conclusion ? Where did I say that ? Bizarre-world, TN, you live in.[/quote]

You said:

Anyone picked up on the unexpected implication of bloody Brexit? ow we're going to lose that magic E111 card, it really puts the mockers on leaving the UK for a European holiday. All travel insurance that I've seen excludes Covid-19 now. So it's a lottery going away now. If it's a seven day break then perhaps not too bad unless you pick it up the first day you get there and have a fast severe reaction. How are you going to pay for your hospital care or repatriation ? Or you might already be infected before you go out but not know it.

Is that not a direct reference to the UK paying for your health care in Europe? Did I miss something in translation?

 

[RogerS]

Not that I care, but why is it important for UK taxpayers to subsidize your holiday insurance? The people without disposable income may be interested to know.

TN...how on earth have you come to that conclusion ? Where did I say that ? Bizarre-world, TN, you live in.

You said:

Anyone picked up on the unexpected implication of bloody Brexit? ow we're going to lose that magic E111 card, it really puts the mockers on leaving the UK for a European holiday. All travel insurance that I've seen excludes Covid-19 now. So it's a lottery going away now. If it's a seven day break then perhaps not too bad unless you pick it up the first day you get there and have a fast severe reaction. How are you going to pay for your hospital care or repatriation ? Or you might already be infected before you go out but not know it.

Is that not a direct reference to the UK paying for your health care in Europe? Did I miss something in translation?[/quote]

Yes. The E111 card was a reciprocal arrangement. Google it.

 

[Trainee neophyte]

Yes. The E111 card was a reciprocal arrangement. Google it.

You are bemoaning the fact that Brexit will stop you having freebie health provision, via the NHS, on your hols in Europe, and suggesting that there is no longer any point going on holiday, because you will need to pay your own way. Reciprocity seems irrelevant.

Again: why should UK taxpayers find your holiday health expenses? There must be a good reason, and I would love to hear it. Not anything I feel a need to fight about, but I am interested to know why you should be entitled to free healthcare when you are making discretionary spending choices, entirely for your own selfish pleasure, outside of the UK.

 

[Andy Kev.]

Just where shall I start ? You're conflating so many different concepts. Plus introducing virtue-signalling ...

"Indulgence" ? First world luxury ? Define 'luxury' . Is buying a season ticket to ManU a luxury ? Going to the opera ? All value-judgements that you are not entitled to make.

Try engaging brain first. What one is actually talking about is disposable income . OK...a lot of people don't have any. That's life. Maybe you think we should all go back to using handplanes because someone, somewhere in the world cannot afford to buy a thicknesser ?

So stop preaching.

I'm virtue signalling? It would appear that you have latched on to this modern term and not quite understood it. You will be defeated in any attempt to find me claiming any sort of virtues for myself for the simple reason that I haven't.

As I've already pointed out, luxury is a relative concept. You, me and everyone else on here enjoy a lifestyle which from the viewpoint of much of the world's population, indeed from the viewpoint of most of our (late) grandparents, is a luxurious thing from getting up in the morning until going to bed at night. The fact that most of us still find something to whinge about is inevitable although it does indicate a certain lack of self-awareness while simultaneously being an indicator of self-centredness.

A foreign holiday - something which I quite happily enjoy - is one of the cherries on the icing of our luxurious cakes. I don't feel remotely guilty about wallowing in relative luxury nor enjoying the cherries (so much for virtue signalling). You, however, appear to massively lack self-awareness in your moan about the health form (easily remedied by forking out for a bit of health insurance as somebody has pointed out and affordable for anybody who can afford a foreign holiday).

Now if you choose to parade your self-centredness and lack of self-awareness and in a rather public place (your Tim Berners-Lee given right which I'm sure we'll all defend until our dying breath), don't be surprised if your stance attracts criticism. You've shown often enough in the past that you find it difficult to take criticism, not that it particularly matters with regard to this particular issue.

My exercising of my right to criticise your stance is not by any stretch of the imagination an exercise in virtue signalling (I repeat: do be careful in bandying about terms which you do not fully understand or lack the ability to apply sensibly). It could be seen as a bit preachy, I suppose but then again if you can't take the heat etc.

A possible moral of the story? Think twice before airing first world non-problems in public: it tends to look petulant. We all have those non-problems and indeed enjoy a good whinge about them but for the sake of our dignity, it is often sensible to keep them to ourselves.

 

[Rorschach]

I wouldn't pay too much attention to RogerS's trolling, he doesn't even know that the E111 form has been called an EHIC for 15 years :lol:

 

[woodhutt]

If I might be allowed my two penn'orth, I am bewildered by the whinge in an earlier post on this thread that it is impossible to get travel insurance coverage for CV19.
First; should you be travelling at all during this pandemic? Ignoring the argument of 'privilege' for those that can afford travel. is it not a selfish act to put others at risk by your possible transmission of the disease? (Someone's willingness to do this precludes me from worrying about they themselves contracting the disease.)
Second; by having reciprocal health cover such as EHIC (only valid in EU countries anyway as I understand it) are you not simply transferring any negative health outcome resulting from your travel from one country's, probably overstretched, health system to another? Isn't this a little too similar to the argument used against 'health migrants' entering the UK, for example?

I was also gobsmacked to watch the recent televised address by Boris to the nation (only some 2 - 3 days ago) in which he announced that, henceforth, people entering the country would have to go into voluntary isolation for fourteen days.
What!!? Who are these people entering the country and why wasn't this stopped two months ago? It further astonished me to listen to him sell this as the next logical step in the process. Wrong!! It was the FIRST logical step in the process and now the UK is playing catch-up with those countries who implemented this from day one and are now moving back to some semblance of normality.

And yes. I know that NZ and Australia are fortunate in being island nations as was pointed out some time ago by a BBC presenter who obviously needs to look at a map of the UK.

Keep well everyone.
Pete

 

[Trevanion]

And yes. I know that NZ and Australia are fortunate in being island nations as was pointed out some time ago by a BBC presenter who obviously needs to look at a map of the UK.

Yes, we're technically an island nation but the main difference is that everything that goes into NZ or AU is either by boat or plane, we have droves of freight coming in from the continent and Ireland by ferry and train every day that needs to come in.

 

[woodhutt]

I am not talking about freight (which NZ and Oz also needs) but people. The only difference I can see in your argument is that we don't have trains bringing in our freight.
Pete

 

[Trevanion]

The only difference I can see in your argument is that we don't have trains bringing in our freight.

Channel Tunnel.

 

[woodhutt]

[/quote]Channel Tunnel.[/quote]

Thanks. I had figured that one out after discounting amphibious rolling stock :wink:
I'd be interested to know how much freight is brought in by train as opposed to sea and air though. Just to satisfy my curiosity.

Still doesn't negate my rant about unrestricted people travel in and out to date.

Cheers,
Pete

 

[Trevanion]

I'd be interested to know how much freight is brought in by train as opposed to sea and air though. Just to satisfy my curiosity.

I would have no idea what the actual numbers are for comparative tonnes of freight but doing a quick lookup says that about 1.6M lorries use the Tunnel each year.

Still doesn't negate my rant about unrestricted people travel in and out to date.

To be fair, if you managed to get a flight in or out of the country during this you are doing very well. It's practically been restricted the whole time without officially being restricted.

 

[woodhutt]

To be fair, if you managed to get a flight in or out of the country during this you are doing very well. It's practically been restricted the whole time without officially being restricted.

Watching events in the UK on TV there still seems to have been an inordinate amount of people travel in and out of the UK (ferries? Eurostar?) as well as unnecessary travel within the country. If this were not so, there would be no need to now announce an isolation regime for new arrivals and tout it as the next logical step (which is what really grates).
Relatives in the UK have also indicated that the 'lock-down' regulations have been poorly managed with often conflicting/confusing guidelines.
I'm sorry if this sounds 'smug', given our improved situation here in NZ but, as an ex-pat with a fondness for the country in which I was born and raised, it annoys me to see how (IMHO) this issue has been so badly handled.
Pete

 

[Droogs]

It has been pathetically handled and the current people in charge should be investigated under criminal negligence charges. The has been no testing - even temp checks of people arriving in the UK since this stated at any port/airport as part of official policy. People i know who were able to get back to the UK last week after being in lockdown in the far east just walked through Edinburgh airportarrivals got their luggage and got in a taxi.