Guns,guns, and more Guns

[Jacob]

Jacob you make my point for me. How can you read about slavery and conclude that the essence of human nature is for us to be kind to one another??

Slavery was developed and imposed by powerful minorities with vested interests but opposed by the majority, especially the slaves, and was fought against and largely eradicated. Maybe you didn't know this?

 

[Jacob]

Fergie 307
And in relation to your last point, your quoted percentage might also refer to the numbers of people who are happy to flock to cheap clothing stores to buy their £2 tee shirts etc, and don't give a damn for the exploitation of the people, often children, who work in sweat shops for pence a day making them.


Interesting that the die hard Labour areas is where shops like Sports Direct, well known for very cheap far east production as well as zero hour contracts and below minimum wage is the go to shop for the locals. Just saying! Everything for a quid does extremely well also but their suppliers pay top dollar of course.

It's history repeating itself - the cotton trade was massive and provided near slave level work and appalling living conditions on British workers - with the raw material largely produced by actual slaves.
But in fact when alerted to exploitative conditions public reaction has affected guilty businesses and they've had to retrench.

 

[Jacob]

Regarding the history of the Labour movement, again there are some interesting points. Were those behind early worker protection measures such as The Cotton Mills Act in the early nineteenth century, equally vociferous in calling for protection for the slaves who picked the stuff in the first place..er, no.

Er yes. The opposition to slavery was immensely popular in Britain and widely supported across class and other divides.

They were interested in improving conditions or their own people, but never uttered a peep regarding slavery. It was left to others to take up that cause.

Absolute nonsense. You really don't know your history do you!
Abolitionism in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia
https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/clips/zm99wmnhttps://www.workersliberty.org/stor...ry-britains-first-mass-working-class-campaign

 

[RobinBHM]

But in fact when alerted to exploitative conditions public reaction has affected guilty businesses

I haven’t seen much outcry about the way Amazon, Sports Direct etc treat people. Amazon even restrict people’s toilet breaks. (I know SD went belly up)

 

[Jacob]

I haven’t seen much outcry about the way Amazon, Sports Direct etc treat people. Amazon even restrict people’s toilet breaks. (I know SD went belly up)

There has been quite a lot - it's well known. A lot of people boycott Amazon and SD. Unions are on the up at the moment so maybe they'll get on the case.

 

[Blackswanwood]

There has been quite a lot - it's well known. A lot of people boycott Amazon and SD. Unions are on the up at the moment so maybe they'll get on the case.

Unless I am mistaken the increase in membership is in the public sector. Private sector membership has fallen.

 

[Lons]

It's history repeating itself - the cotton trade was massive and provided near slave level work and appalling living conditions on British workers - with the raw material largely produced by actual slaves.
But in fact when alerted to exploitative conditions public reaction has affected guilty businesses and they've had to retrench.

C'mon Jacob, that reply hasn't got anywhere near to answering my post. Everyone in the country who reads a newspaper, watches TV or goes on the internet is well aware of the practices of companies such as Sports Direct who are an excellent example, Ashley was ordered in front of MPs to answer to his dodgy practices foe example, so the very people I mentioned, especially in Labour stongholds are very happy to buy very cheap clothes and shoes produced in the far east sweat shops. Not raw materials for UK production but finished products so no UK factories involved just warehouse and shop staff. The buyers know that but instead of voting with their feet they choose to support the companies by handing over their cash. If you don't believe it then I suggest you stand outside one of the shops for a couple of hours, perhaps you might even be able to combine that with some early campaigning, you never know, could double your vote count next time.
There ya go, I hope that suggestion helps.

 

[Blackswanwood]

C'mon Jacob, that reply hasn't got anywhere near to answering my post. Everyone in the country who reads a newspaper, watches TV or goes on the internet is well aware of the practices of companies such as Sports Direct who are an excellent example, Ashley was ordered in front of MPs to answer to his dodgy practices foe example, so the very people I mentioned, especially in Labour stongholds are very happy to buy very cheap clothes and shoes produced in the far east sweat shops. Not raw materials for UK production but finished products so no UK factories involved just warehouse and shop staff. The buyers know that but instead of voting with their feet they choose to support the companies by handing over their cash. If you don't believe it then I suggest you stand outside one of the shops for a couple of hours, perhaps you might even be able to combine that with some early campaigning, you never know, could double your vote count next time.
There ya go, I hope that suggestion helps.

Spot on. The vast majority of U.K. consumers don’t give a toss about where/how it was made as long as they get a bargain.

 

[Lons]

There has been quite a lot - it's well known. A lot of people boycott Amazon and SD. Unions are on the up at the moment so maybe they'll get on the case.

Rubbish
Amazon have never been busier and are rapidly growing and Sports Direct had huge queues when they reopened after lockdowns, you really need to look for yourself instead of relying on dodgy reporting.

Robin
I haven’t seen much outcry about the way Amazon, Sports Direct etc treat people. Amazon even restrict people’s toilet breaks. (I know SD went belly up)

When did Sports Direct go bust Robin? Ashley has recently handed over the day to day running to his daughter's partner but still holds the reins and as far as I know they are trading quite nicely despite Ashley's claims to be losing hundeds of millions £s due to the pandemic, he's still trying to buy out companies and personally wants Derby County Football Club as well now that he got his £300 million for Newcastle. Maybe I've missed something?

 

[Jacob]

C'mon Jacob, that reply hasn't got anywhere near to answering my post. Everyone in the country who reads a newspaper, watches TV or goes on the internet is well aware of the practices of companies such as Sports Direct who are an excellent example, Ashley was ordered in front of MPs to answer to his dodgy practices foe example, so the very people I mentioned, especially in Labour stongholds are very happy to buy very cheap clothes and shoes produced in the far east sweat shops. Not raw materials for UK production but finished products so no UK factories involved just warehouse and shop staff. The buyers know that but instead of voting with their feet they choose to support the companies by handing over their cash. If you don't believe it then I suggest you stand outside one of the shops for a couple of hours, perhaps you might even be able to combine that with some early campaigning, you never know, could double your vote count next time.
There ya go, I hope that suggestion helps.

We all know what goes on at Amazon and SD and many do boycott them. I presume you do too.
If you are concerned about it why don't you join a Union? Unite looks like the current general purpose favourite and has increasing membership and promises action.
Interesting how suggesting that things could be better has brought out this deep pessimism and anger, not to mention the gun crazies! But maybe you are not as powerless as you think?
Blaming Labour voters for supporting Amazon and SD looks like stretching it a bit!
PS Maybe you should read Humankind: A Hopeful History by Rutger Bregman review – a tribute to our better nature as a matter of urgency. It's principle target is the culture of pessimism and powerlessness that we see here.
It's pop science, a light read, but non the worse for that.
PPS and as for the campaigning - why don't you do that - stand outside SD and protest about the exploitation you are so angry about? What is stopping you? protests outside sports direct - Google Search

 

[RobinBHM]

There has been quite a lot - it's well known. A lot of people boycott Amazon and SD. Unions are on the up at the moment so maybe they'll get on the case.

Not as much as there should be.

this digital age + globalisation has led to a period where businesses like Amazon have far too much power.

 

[Jacob]

Not as much as there should be.

this digital age + globalisation has led to a period where businesses like Amazon have far too much power.

I agree.

 

[Lons]

We all know what goes on at Amazon and SD and many do boycott them. I presume you do too.
If you are concerned about it why don't you join a Union? Unite looks like the current general purpose favourite and has increasing membership and promises action.
Interesting how suggesting that things could be better has brought out this deep pessimism and anger, not to mention the gun crazies! But maybe you are not as powerless as you think?
Blaming Labour voters for supporting Amazon and SD looks like stretching it a bit!
PS Maybe you should read Humankind: A Hopeful History by Rutger Bregman review – a tribute to our better nature as a matter of urgency. It's principle target is the culture of pessimism and powerlessness that we see here.
It's pop science, a light read, but non the worse for that.

Don't be stupid, I never said labour voters buy from Amazon or specifically SD I did say that SD were the "go to shop in Labour strongholds" where of course voters of other parties also live and are able to purchase in shops of their choice..

I don't shop at SD but have been in a few times out of curiosity but apart from the ethical issues they sell a lot of carp and your glib comment that "many do boycot them" means diddly squat without evidence. I do buy from Amazon very occasionally when there's little other option especially because of restrictions due to the virus however I avoid it as much as possible, I presume you don't buy from them ever!

Unions - don't make me laugh. I'm retired and not interested but in any event given my personal experience as well also on behalf of my late father with a certain union I wouldn't touch them with a bargepole, looking at a number of dodgy MPs who have used that route into easy politics election only serves to strengthen that view. You can keep your campaigning to yourself as far as I'm concerned. I appreciate your recommended reading list btw but I don't need it, I'm good thanks.

Personally I'm not pessimistic or angry in fact usually the opposite but I certainly don't like the violence and am with you on the gun crazies issue.

 

[Jacob]

...... your glib comment that "many do boycot them" means diddly squat without evidence. ......

It's a well known fact of life. I used to buy from both but no longer. Ditto many people I know. Every little helps!

 

[Lons]

It's a well known fact of life. I used to buy from both but no longer. Ditto many people I know. Every little helps!

Another quote without substance.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Ditto many people I know

It's a well known fact of life. I used to buy from both but no longer. Ditto many people I know. Every little helps!

Virtue signallers. You're in good company.

 

[Jacob]

Ditto many people I know



Virtue signallers. You're in good company.

I thought the term "virtue signalling" had gone out of fashion. I suppose things are different in Cornwall!

 

[Jacob]

Another quote without substance.

I'm not going to supply a list of all the virtue signallers I know - you'll just have to take my word for it!

 

[Droogs]

It's a well known fact of life. I used to buy from both but no longer. Ditto many people I know. Every little helps!

Oi! Tesco aren't any better you know,

 

[Jacob]

Oi! Tesco aren't any better you know,

Never go to Tescos either. You name it, we virtue-signal at it!
Tends to be Co-op for us. Not the best but OK.