Guns,guns, and more Guns

[sploo]

A bit weird these long thread about guns. Unhealthy and creepy - maybe some people need a bit of counselling?
Can we change the subject - how about 'guillotines' instead? Then we could move on to nooses and scaffolds?

Somewhat related; but I have always thought that, in any pro-gun argument, if you replaced the word "gun" with something else (e.g. "chainsaw", or "baseball bat", or "nunchucks") and then replay the sentence it becomes clear just how silly many of the arguments sound - and how even the gun advocates might start to feel a bit embarrassed about the argument. Point being that the debate on gun ownership is so polarised that it becomes more about "the right" than a rational argument based on evidence.

Same goes for "God" and "little green men from Mars"... but I really am likely to be stirring things up with that one.

 

[artie]

Yes it is!

You're trying to argue that just as many people would be killed by golf clubs, knives and bear hands if people didn't have access to guns.

That's not what my post said you have embellished it.
I've already explained, more than once, that my comment about golf clubs etc was in response to this comment
" And if you give them ready access to guns they can do it quickly and efficiently while they're still angry - before they've had a chance to cool down and think about it. "
See you said guns, you didn't say assault rifles or full auto.
Then in a later comment you said that having to go home for a golf club would give someone a chance to cool down, well guess what there are plenty other blunt instruments.
BTW how many people do you think would have a gun/assault weapon on them and wouldn't have to go home for it??

I'm trying to argue that that's not the case because people with guns can kill more efficiently with guns than with your alternatives.

I agree

just suggested you imagine trying to do each other in with various weapons, and when you didn't get the gun you backed out. How come?

I understood that he wanted us to attack a school or some such and see who could kill the most.
It wasn't a scenario I wanted to discuss

On the other hand if he was challenging me to a duel, Then again, he was applying my comment to something other than what I directed it at.

If he was suggesting that two people set out to kill someone each, one with a revolver and the other with a golf club I think the golf club would be just as effective and quieter giving a better chance of escape.

But you're still defending guns. Why are you against making it harder to kill others?

Cheers, Vann.

I'm not against making it harder for people to kill each other.

Thing is, if I have a problem, I like to find out what's causing the problem and then fix it.

The old standby "If it saves one life it's worth it" cuts both ways guns can save lives.

Lots of people hate guns, are afraid of guns, don't understand guns, don't want to know about guns and that's up to them.

But effectively banning guns is just a fantasy in the real world

 

[Spectric]

Nobody in the US would give a second thought of going most places in England because we think most european cities are safe

Big mistake, the promotional advertising would like you to think so but parts of London are probably no go for most and other big towns and cities are going the same way and it shows you do not need a gun culture for criminal gangs to thrive, knives and swords can be good enough. Then a lot of people from the UK make the same mistake, they go abroad and think they are safe and can wander around doing what they like without realising it is a different culture and not just another UK suburb.

 

[artie]

because it applies to well trained militia, and all of them, should be well trained to open carry 24/7 and act as militia.
Public is the great threat to any criminal - having ALL MEMBERS AS PUBLIC WELL TRAINED, AND CARRY TO KILL CRIMINALS. It works great on Holland, where ALL police is in casual wear conceal carry. I witnessed attempted robbery in sandwich shop, with 2 police standing in the queue… 2 seconds arrest

Actually it's "Well regulated militia"
What is the Militia? It's every able bodied man between 18 and 65 although younger and older have served in time of need.

It works great on Holland, where ALL police is in casual wear conceal carry.

I seriously doubt that, but I haven't been there recently.

 

[Jacob]

.......

But effectively banning guns is just a fantasy in the real world

They have been very effectively banned in the UK. e.g. There has been only one multiple shooting since Dunblane 1996, as compared to the USA epidemic.
Unlikely ever to be zero - you can make your own gun if you really want to.

 

[doctor Bob]

Big mistake, the promotional advertising would like you to think so but parts of London are probably no go for most

Which parts, I think there are are few parts I wouldn't walk through at 2am, and would maybe avoid a few housing estates but I think on the hole you are totally wrong. How often do you travel through London as I'm curious as to where your fear comes from.

 

[D_W]

Which parts, I think there are are few parts I wouldn't walk through at 2am, and would maybe avoid a few housing estates but I think on the hole you are totally wrong. How often do you travel through London as I'm curious as to where your fear comes from.

London wasn't one of the unsafe areas mentioned in the video I saw.

As an American, I'd probably have walked right through any of them. I hate to sound naive, but I'm not sure I'd recognize the difference between "that's weed" and "there are hippies around". I guess if there's the same smell without the hippies, that'd be a clue.

I spent an internship living in a section 8 housing area outside of Pittsburgh (because a friend chose our apartment not-so-wisely). I didn't stay in at night there, either - realistically, the most you usually get from locals is a stinkeye look "you lost? you crazy?"

Separately, I wonder if pickpocketing has lost a little of its shine now that most people don't carry much cash and most phones are locked.

 

[Fergie 307]

Moderators can we move this topic to Off Topic 2 forum please.. I think this counts as controversial and to be honest topics like this really should be "opt-in" viewing which Off Topic 2 is designed for

Have to say I don't agree. I think this has remained a remarkably civilised and interesting debate.

 

[RobinBHM]

Moderators can we move this topic to Off Topic 2 forum please.. I think this counts as controversial and to be honest topics like this really should be "opt-in" viewing which Off Topic 2 is designed for

May I gently suggest all threads are “opt-in viewing…….

 

[Spectric]

How often do you travel through London as I'm curious as to where your fear comes from.

I avoid London now at all cost, but thirty deaths last year and it is no good saying it won't happen to me. A freind lived down on the south coast and he avoided some areas of Hastings at night and it was not uncommon for people to get assaulted at a cash machine, and a quote


The rise in crime in England and Wales is accelerating, according to police figures, which show a 14% year-on-year increase in offences recorded by forces across England and Wales.

Knife crime has gone up even more steeply, by 21% in the 12 months to September, and gun crime has risen by 20%, according to quarterly figures released on Thursday.

Police chiefs said the increases – including a 32% rise in domestic burglary to 261,965 offences and an 18% rise in vehicle-related crimes (443,577 offences) alongside the sharp rises in violent crime – marked a turning point after more than 20 years of sustained falls in these categories.

The UK is no longer the country it used to be, as life gets tougher then there will always be people who look for easier pickings.

 

[BucksDad]

May I gently suggest all threads are “opt-in viewing…….

My point was this thread appears in the "what's new" list because it's in the general forum and is imo, in the wrong place.

Anyway I found the "Ignore thread" button now which works fine

 

[artie]

and gun crime has risen by 20%, according to quarterly figures released on Thursday.

Surely not, couldn't be.

Someone told me no later than today that guns are effectively banned in the UK

 

[doctor Bob]

I avoid London now at all cost, but thirty deaths last year and it is no good saying it won't happen to me.

Why not, chances of me being murdered in London are very very slim, I'm the wrong demographic, plus I don't wear flash watches or use a cash point at 2 in the morning or try and buy drugs. London really is a great day out, one of the best cities in the world. Media paint a picture which is often unrelatable, seems to be their job now to instil panic in everybody about everything.

 

[Spectric]

Someone told me no later than today that guns are effectively banned in the UK

So are class A drugs but we still have a big drug problem and that generates lots of cash and with money you can buy most things and you have to ask yourself the question, are the police really doing all they can or are they just now like a guard dog on a short chain.

 

[Jacob]

Surely not, couldn't be.

Someone told me no later than today that guns are effectively banned in the UK

They are effectively banned in the UK but this will never be 100% and there will be variations year on year.
You could work it out yourself if you didn't spend all your time talking 100% tosh

 

[selectortone]

Surely not, couldn't be.

Someone told me no later than today that guns are effectively banned in the UK

I would bet that pretty much all of that gun crime increase is gang related and carried out with illegal weapons. It has nothing to do with the historical mass shootings being discussed in this thread which were all perpetrated with legally held weapons and which led to the ban on most people keeping them.

I think you know that Artie, you just like being ornery.

 

[GregW]

Surely not, couldn't be.

Someone told me no later than today that guns are effectively banned in the UK

Banned only for individuals which cares for having criminal-free records….
Rest uses guns as they pleased….

 

[RobinBHM]

Banned only for individuals which cares for having criminal-free records….
Rest uses guns as they pleased….

ah yes the old "there's no point having gun controls as criminals ignore rules"

but the UK has tight gun controls and very low gun violence.......

 

[GregW]

So are class A drugs but we still have a big drug problem and that generates lots of cash and with money you can buy most things and you have to ask yourself the question, are the police really doing all they can or are they just now like a guard dog on a short chain.

Not so much class A. Revenues steadily stopped from 2014, when GOV is a main supplier of class A drugs transported officials from Afghanistan, based on The Law Acts for fighting Terrorism.
BTW. Same reason Yakuza not selling A Class anymore as much, but switched to Blue Tuna counterfeit business.

secondary, all skunk cannabis is under HM MI offices supervision. Rest going to prison sooneror later.

there is only one solution, legalisation all, and increase early/teen education about effects of substances, how they long term effect dopamine inhabit body ability, and live in general. Idiots/uneducated will abuse them selfs regardless who supply drugs.

EDIT: that is unrealistic, when BAN is most common solution for common ignorance and no self responsibility for poor choices.

 

[artie]

So are class A drugs but we still have a big drug problem

If we still have a big drug problem then drugs aren't effectively banned

and that generates lots of cash and with money you can buy most things

If you can buy most things with money, I take it you are including guns so...

and you have to ask yourself the question, are the police really doing all they can or are they just now like a guard dog on a short chain.

That's a whole other matter.