Guns,guns, and more Guns

[selectortone]

Every act of HER government.

Artie, you're taking the p*iss. You can't really believe that. When was the last time a monarch stopped the enactment of a bill? (It was 1709)

Do you actually believe that every bill enacted since then was at the monarch's pleasure? They agreed with every single one? It's ceremonial.

 

[artie]

You can't really believe that. When was the last time a monarch stopped the enactment of a bill? (It was 1709)

I understood it was in 1707 by Queen Anne.

So you've just proved my point?

 

[Trainee neophyte]

But to get back to the original topic, if it's not the ubiquity of guns that leads to the very high gun death rate in the US, compared with other civilized countries, then what other theories are proposed?

Well, another theory might be abortion or lack of availability therof. The murder rate in the usa is actually much, much lower than it was in the 70s. Some politicians claimed they were responsible for the remarkable drop because of their fabulous left wing or right wing policies, but the clever peeps at Freakanomics put forward the theory that Roe vs Wade was actually the cause: all those unwanted, unloved babies suddenly weren't being born, and weren't growing up living on the margins of society, with no morals and no desire to be law abiding. The original paper may be here: http://islandia.law.yale.edu/donohue/Donohue and Levitt (2001).pdf but I couldn't get it to download. Here's an updated podcast for those with time and interest: Abortion and Crime, Revisited - Freakonomics

 

[selectortone]

I understood it was in 1707 by Queen Anne.

So you've just proved my point?

Yep. Definitely taking the pish.

 

[John Brown]

It's a fact.

I don't know much/anything really about executive orders, waiting for DW to fill me in.


John Brown said:
I'm sick of people trotting out trite phrases like "guns don't kill people". Total bo11ocks.

Lets get real, anything from a pebble up through rocks, clubs, arrows etc can be used to kill people.

There is a deep seated fear in people when it comes to guns, mostly from people who know nothing about them.

So out come the knee jerk reaction, ban them.

You said Australia did the experiment.

So tell us what was the outcome of the Australian experiment. Have there been no more murders?

Yep. Zero murders in Australia since.

 

[John Brown]

Well, another theory might be abortion or lack of availability therof. The murder rate in the usa is actually much, much lower than it was in the 70s. Some politicians claimed they were responsible for the remarkable drop because of their fabulous left wing or right wing policies, but the clever peeps at Freakanomics put forward the theory that Roe vs Wade was actually the cause: all those unwanted, unloved babies suddenly weren't being born, and weren't growing up living on the margins of society, with no morals and no desire to be law abiding. The original paper may be here: http://islandia.law.yale.edu/donohue/Donohue and Levitt (2001).pdf but I couldn't get it to download. Here's an updated podcast for those with time and interest: Abortion and Crime, Revisited - Freakonomics

Interesting. I hadn't heard that theory before.

 

[artie]

Yep. Zero murders in Australia since.

What are we to take from that?

 

[D_W]

I genuinely don't understand.
Do you mean by toothless, that it has no effect?
If the law is already in place, why does it take an executive order to activate it?

That's correct. It can be a toothless suggestion or a matter of enforcement policy. The executive branch enforces the law.

 

[D_W]

Trump did his best to destroy democracy, but the American voting system resisted his attempts to bypass democracy.

I think that is proof America is democratic, not that democracy is that real anywhere really.

Kind of a limp version of "destroy democracy". I remember when this board was all in a lather about the riots coming and I told you there'd be none. How many were there?

 

[D_W]

its not so much elect as choose between 2 dung choices, billionaire A or billionaire B

Trump or Biden
Clinton or Trump.

as opposed to
Johnson or Corbyn…….

I think the two guys you mentioned are more incompetent, but maybe they do have less money on their side. Not sure how worse but poorer is good.

Biden isn't particularly wealthy.

 

[Cabinetman]

Well, another theory might be abortion or lack of availability therof. The murder rate in the usa is actually much, much lower than it was in the 70s. Some politicians claimed they were responsible for the remarkable drop because of their fabulous left wing or right wing policies, but the clever peeps at Freakanomics put forward the theory that Roe vs Wade was actually the cause: all those unwanted, unloved babies suddenly weren't being born, and weren't growing up living on the margins of society, with no morals and no desire to be law abiding. The original paper may be here: http://islandia.law.yale.edu/donohue/Donohue and Levitt (2001).pdf but I couldn't get it to download. Here's an updated podcast for those with time and interest: Abortion and Crime, Revisited - Freakonomics

I’m sure I read Freakonomics and the other theory that was proposed and there was a very convincing graph, that showed it was the exclusion of lead from petrol, and the resultant unsettling of young brains, particularly in built up areas. It also showed the explosion in crime after the lead was introduced.
It was the same scientist that came up with lead in petrol, who decided it would be a good idea to use CFCs in refrigerants, plus one other blinder I can’t remember. The guy, I think his name was Smith – an American has caused untold damage when there were other alternatives - or so I read. Ian

 

[Lons]

That's pretty much what most of us see about the royal family; the tabloids at the supermarket. Not sure how many of them sell.

Well if they don't sell in quantity that makes American supermarkets pretty dammed inefficient when it comes to shelf sales space, if something doesn't sell in a supermarket in the UK it's fairly quickly removed and replaced with items that do sell.

 

[Jake]

Kind of a limp version of "destroy democracy". I remember when this board was all in a lather about the riots coming and I told you there'd be none. How many were there?

Just the one where they wanted to hang the VP and the Speaker and probably others but were eventually beaten off.

 

[Jake]

That is a formality, as you know. Not comparable to an executive order.

It's very similar to delegated powers under legislation here The only difference is the entirely theoretical (as proved by Rees-Mogg's complete contempt for the Queen over prorogation) fantasy that the government is wielding HMG's power rather than its own.

That prorogation debacle ended the British pompous establishment's best argument for a constitutional monarchy - that it's a handbrake on an authoritarian take-over by the executive.

The Queen knew full well it was an outrage and unlawful and agreed anyway.

Shocking. Would have caused a revolution in less complacent times.

 

[D_W]

Well if they don't sell in quantity that makes American supermarkets pretty dammed inefficient when it comes to shelf sales space, if something doesn't sell in a supermarket in the UK it's fairly quickly removed and replaced with items that do sell.

They're not there in the quantity that they used to be, but that may have something to do with the internet providing the same stories for free.

 

[doctor Bob]

Bowling for Columbine, was an interesting film to watch back in the day.
Made in 2002 so not sure how it stands up now, but it felt like an eye opener. After the Columbine mass shooting it seemed an opportunity to do something, yet it was missed.

 

[D_W]

Completely off topic but does your catalogue have any adverts for Waterbury watches? I collect these and love some of the old adverts for them.

No dice on the Waterbury. Just a mention on an alarm clock that the alarm is "the famous waterbury" type. It looks like American pocket watch makers were too well organized by then and that's mostly what's in the catalog.

 

[D_W]

Well, another theory might be abortion or lack of availability therof. The murder rate in the usa is actually much, much lower than it was in the 70s. Some politicians claimed they were responsible for the remarkable drop because of their fabulous left wing or right wing policies, but the clever peeps at Freakanomics put forward the theory that Roe vs Wade was actually the cause: all those unwanted, unloved babies suddenly weren't being born, and weren't growing up living on the margins of society, with no morals and no desire to be law abiding. The original paper may be here: http://islandia.law.yale.edu/donohue/Donohue and Levitt (2001).pdf but I couldn't get it to download. Here's an updated podcast for those with time and interest: Abortion and Crime, Revisited - Freakonomics

The murder rate decline is due to huge incarceration increases in the 1990s.

 

[D_W]

Bowling for Columbine, was an interesting film to watch back in the day.
Made in 2002 so not sure how it stands up now, but it felt like an eye opener. After the Columbine mass shooting it seemed an opportunity to do something, yet it was missed.

I think parts of the film were criticized for being edited too far from the truth, but these incidents do bring a question...if legislation is going nowhere, what else can we look at? What's a pattern with the kids. Internet, antidepressants, antipsychotics, certain parental situations?

 

[Droogs]

I’m sure I read Freakonomics and the other theory that was proposed and there was a very convincing graph, that showed it was the exclusion of lead from petrol, and the resultant unsettling of young brains, particularly in built up areas. It also showed the explosion in crime after the lead was introduced.
It was the same scientist that came up with lead in petrol, who decided it would be a good idea to use CFCs in refrigerants, plus one other blinder I can’t remember. The guy, I think his name was Smith – an American has caused untold damage when there were other alternatives - or so I read. Ian

Thomas Midgley Jnr, the greatest environmental disaster since an Allosaurus having a holiday in Florida looked up and thought, "What the Frack is that up there, looks a bit iffy"