Gosh. Things have changed since I last did "proper woodwork".

[Beatsy]

Abranet (Toolstation for common grits) for an abrasive and semforite for an adhesive if you miss cascamite.
https://www.maragon.co.uk/glue.html#Init

As this thread came back to life, I thought I'd report that the Semforite is now in use and works just like the Cascamite I knew and loved, only whiter.

I also got some Abranet to try out (on a whim when I came across a one-off deal on a small selection of cut pieces). It's very good as an abrasive but it has a pretty thick, fluffy back for velcro-ing on sanders etc. That's not a problem in itself, but it makes the sanding surface too spongy for my current project. Even glued to a block, it tends to round over the edges of flat surfaces if you apply *any* pressure while sanding them. I need the edges to stay utterly planar with the rest of the surface for this job. I tried clamping hard onto the wood sanding block while gluing, which did make a very solid firm surface and stopped the rounding, but it completely compromised the non-clogging behaviour too. Gummed up in no time. As I said though, it's a good abrasive and it will find other applications - so no loss.

Cheers

 

[D_W]

As this thread came back to life, I thought I'd report that the Semforite is now in use and works just like the Cascamite I knew and loved, only whiter.

I also got some Abranet to try out (on a whim when I came across a one-off deal on a small selection of cut pieces). It's very good as an abrasive but it has a pretty thick, fluffy back for velcro-ing on sanders etc. That's not a problem in itself, but it makes the sanding surface too spongy for my current project. Even glued to a block, it tends to round over the edges of flat surfaces if you apply *any* pressure while sanding them. I need the edges to stay utterly planar with the rest of the surface for this job. I tried clamping hard onto the wood sanding block while gluing, which did make a very solid firm surface and stopped the rounding, but it completely compromised the non-clogging behaviour too. Gummed up in no time. As I said though, it's a good abrasive and it will find other applications - so no loss.

Cheers

Well, that probably changed, too. People don't seem to recognize "sanding the life out of" something in a lot of cases.

PSA roll is widely available, though, and tough/long lasting and will stay flat.

I would guess the cushion on the abranet lets it run cooler and makes it last longer vs. something with harsher contact with the wood.

 

[recipio]

As this thread came back to life, I thought I'd report that the Semforite is now in use and works just like the Cascamite I knew and loved, only whiter.

I also got some Abranet to try out (on a whim when I came across a one-off deal on a small selection of cut pieces). It's very good as an abrasive but it has a pretty thick, fluffy back for velcro-ing on sanders etc. That's not a problem in itself, but it makes the sanding surface too spongy for my current project. Even glued to a block, it tends to round over the edges of flat surfaces if you apply *any* pressure while sanding them. I need the edges to stay utterly planar with the rest of the surface for this job.

Cheers

Abranet really excels when it comes to dust extraction. It was designed for use with power sanders. I found an alternative brand called ' Seanet' on Ebay and it's a lot cheaper. I even use the 400 grit to sand veneers - the trick is a light touch. !

 

[Beatsy]

Well, that probably changed, too. People don't seem to recognize "sanding the life out of" something in a lot of cases.

Sorry, not sure what this means.

PSA roll is widely available, though, and tough/long lasting and will stay flat.

I prefer plain-backed as I'm sticking the paper to glass with PVA (Norton A275 AO, on rolls). I quickly "scrub" a thin layer of PVA on so the glass looks barely "fogged" then whap the sandpaper on pronto and stick masking tape around the edges to stop curling while it dries (10 mins max - then remove the tape). Never had any fall off or lift in use, but when it's time to change the paper, a pull on a corner peels the whole piece off easily and takes nearly all the glue with it. A quick wipe with a damp rag and it's ready for sticking a new piece on.

Cheers

 

[D_W]

Sorry, not sure what this means.


I prefer plain-backed as I'm sticking the paper to glass with PVA (Norton A275 AO, on rolls). I quickly "scrub" a thin layer of PVA on so the glass looks barely "fogged" then whap the sandpaper on pronto and stick masking tape around the edges to stop curling while it dries (10 mins max - then remove the tape). Never had any fall off or lift in use, but when it's time to change the paper, a pull on a corner peels the whole piece off easily and takes nearly all the glue with it. A quick wipe with a damp rag and it's ready for sticking a new piece on.

Cheers

sanding the life out of means sanding something and removing crispness or flatness or the kind of shapes and details that catch the eye.

I stole the term from hasluck's book on carving. We're on the same page on paper. I use the PSA roll and just scrape off whatever it likes to leave behind when it's removed.

 

[Beatsy]

Ah, I see. Thanks for clarifying.

I can see the convenience of PSA but I'd rather the makers put *all* the cost of manufacture into the quality of the sandpaper, not divert some to a "non core function", like sticking to stuff.

 

[D_W]

Ah, I see. Thanks for clarifying.

I can see the convenience of PSA but I'd rather the makers put *all* the cost of manufacture into the quality of the sandpaper, not divert some to a "non core function", like sticking to stuff.

There's an end around to it in the states here. I use sandpaper mostly for tools (truing the soles of wooden planes, etc), but do find a hard lap of it useful elsewhere sometimes.

That end around is that the retailers here selling rolls will often have 6 brands of al-ox paper that is what I'd like, and one or two of them will be on sale. And that pretty much solves which one I'll get as I don't have some big drum sander that I could compare for actual useful life.

When on sale, the discount is often half. The odd roll here or there is iffy (grains don't stay on the paper like they should), but I find the same thing with the sheets and any time I get attached to a specific brand or type, either the manufacturer changes it or the retailers that I use change the manufacturer, which is annoying.

 

[raffo]

It is beyond absurd to think that any Chinese manufacturer will intentionally make an inferior product despite the specifications provided by the contracting company. In the Makita example, are we to assume that that company is powerless to have their products manufactured to a decent quality? The bad Chinese are making them sell inferior products, what nonsense notion.

 

[powertools]

It is amazing how things have changed in the last 50 years of my woodworking.
My first "machines" were attachments for my Stanley Bridges drill these included my first table saw. lathe. sander, jig saw and pillar drill there were no affordable options for anything else and a router or planer were just a thing of dreams.
You guys have so many affordable options but you fail to realise how lucky you are and blame your machines for your lack of skill and fail to see how lucky you are that you are able to buy at a price you can afford.

 

[MARK.B.]

'50s and '60s. maybe.

You are most likely correct there Phil but hey i was only a decade or two out .

It is beyond absurd to think that any Chinese manufacturer will intentionally make an inferior product despite the specifications provided by the contracting company. In the Makita example, are we to assume that that company is powerless to have their products manufactured to a decent quality? The bad Chinese are making them sell inferior products, what nonsense notion.

Raffo if you were referring to my post,you may have misread what i said, the gist of which was that the Chinese or any other producer of tools etc make them to the contracting companies specs and if that contracting company wants to save a penny or two by using a plactic gear in a drill instead of metal,then that's what they will make them with. I never said that a Chinese manufacturer would intentionally use inferior parts but that they would use them if that is what the customer asked for.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

We, buyers of tools, are responsible for what is available. Price is a major influence on consumer choice. Retailers want the cheapest tools upon which they can make the largest profit. Few pay for quality, most to meet an immediate need.

The Chinese over the last 30 years benefitted from low labour costs, limited H&S requirements, and a government which was intent supporting business growth.

The Japanese which we now hold in high esteem came out of WW2 copying western designs at low cost, and ultimately produced better cameras, motorcycles, TVs, consumer electronics etc.

The Chinese build nuclear power stations, go into space, manufacture chips (not the fried kind). If customers demanded quality over price they would be entirely capable of responding. They should be respected for their ability, not ridiculed as being incapable of quality output.

Hand tools are semi obsolete - they have some use on site, for hobbyists, and a limited number of craftsmen (and women). Many (possibly most) young people have no desire or intention to get involved in DIY as I and many more mature folk on this forum may have done.

The original Black and Decker drill may have sowed the seeds of long term decline. Traditional tool functionality has been replaced for most by battery driven routers, planes, sanders, jigsaws, etc.

The Ikea revolution has transformed expectations - no longer is furniture an expensive investment for life, but a recognition that circumstances change over time and permanent means " until needs change", "the kids leave home", or "we retire".

The conclusion - we are left with very high cost, low volume, well-engineered planes, chisels, saws, etc because so few people want to buy them. Reality isn't nice !!!

 

[raffo]

Raffo if you were referring to my post

No, It wasn't your post, it was a response to the latest post by recipio.

 

[MARK.B.]

Ahh ok apologies for jumping in feet first on that one

 

[recipio]

It is beyond absurd to think that any Chinese manufacturer will intentionally make an inferior product despite the specifications provided by the contracting company. In the Makita example, are we to assume that that company is powerless to have their products manufactured to a decent quality? The bad Chinese are making them sell inferior products, what nonsense notion.

Eh...... I never implied that the Chinese default on the specs of tools and turn out inferior products. They can make excellent products - my mobile phone for instance - but the vast majority of woodworking tools including power tools from China are made to a price. This ' planned obsolescence ' was invented in the west so I can only conclude it is a collusion between designers and manufacturers.
There are exceptions - I have no problem buying a Makita tool made in China as they have kept up standards. However it's foolhardy to expect that 'supermarket special' to last a lifetime. Compared to thirty years ago when I started woodworking we live in a world of consumer luxury. I just can't get my head around the notion that tools are in fact 'disposable'.

 

[2 Rivers]

China has certainly won the lottery with low labour costs. Any Makita tool for instance is as likely to be made in China as in Japan. The Japanese however have a special line of Makita tools for their own use. They are maroon coloured rather than blue so that gives you an idea of what they think of the Chinese ! Too bad shipping costs from Japan are so prohibitive.

Makita are also made in the UK, I've been to one of the factory's in Milton Keynes a couple of months ago. The tools were also in the blue colour.

 

[MikeJhn]

Wanting to compare UK goods with Eastern block goods, just look for a UK vehicle manufacturer, they have gone out of business for a reason, one of the most unreliable cars I have owned was a Range Rover.

 

[Beatsy]

Wanting to compare UK goods with Eastern block goods, just look for a UK vehicle manufacturer, they have gone out of business for a reason, one of the most unreliable cars I have owned was a Range Rover.

Haha - I hear you. But at least you can get at Land Rover internals to fix things when they break. The engines and gubbins in modern cars look like they've been poured in. No gaps anywhere!

I couldn't believe the palaver needed just to change a headlamp bulb on my Toyota Yaris. Had to take off a side panel and front bumper, just to get to the screw to take the headlamp assembly out in order to replace the bulb. This is by design too. Convenience and efficiency are targeted solely at manufacturing now, not repair.

 

[MF1000]

Wanting to compare UK goods with Eastern block goods, just look for a UK vehicle manufacturer, they have gone out of business for a reason, one of the most unreliable cars I have owned was a Range Rover.

All JLR manufactured vehicles suffer from poor reliability

 

[stuart little]

Haha - I hear you. But at least you can get at Land Rover internals to fix things when they break. The engines and gubbins in modern cars look like they've been poured in. No gaps anywhere!

I couldn't believe the palaver needed just to change a headlamp bulb on my Toyota Yaris. Had to take off a side panel and front bumper, just to get to the screw to take the headlamp assembly out in order to replace the bulb. This is by design too. Convenience and efficiency are targeted solely at manufacturing now, not repair.

Yep, & so the dealers get to charge more. I've heard that it's an 8 hr. job to change a headlight bulb on Audi A8's !

 

[MF1000]

I’ve heard it’s £3.5k to fit a replacement headlamp assembly on the new Land Rover Defender