Gluing segments

[Froggy]

Hi Everyone, I'm about to attempt to turn a couple of walking sticks. One of them will be segmented:


My main question is: will Titebond 2 be strong enough to hold these segments together? Or do I have to buy a special glue? Any other advice before I start would also be welcome.

T.I.A. Froggy.

 

[chipmunk]

Hi Froggy,
You'll be extremely fortunate if that glue holds - No matter what glue you use end-grain to end-grain is perhaps the most difficult to join and a walking stick can get lots of stress in use.

I'd be tempted to try to drill it up the centre with a lamp auger (... if it's in one piece already, otherwise drill each block lengthways one at a time - although you'll need to make sure the ends of each block are square to the hole) and put a piece of 8mm steel rod or 8mm threaded rod up the centre. You may get away with aluminium rod if the weight is a concern.

Polyurethane glue will hold the rod in place if you rough-up the outside - unless you want to counter-drill the ends of the stick and use nuts on the end of threaded rod.

HTH
Jon

 

[Dalboy]

Hi Froggy,
You'll be extremely fortunate if that glue holds - No matter what glue you use end-grain to end-grain is perhaps the most difficult to join and a walking stick can get lots of stress in use.

I'd be tempted to try to drill it up the centre with a lamp auger (... if it's in one piece already, otherwise drill each block lengthways one at a time - although you'll need to make sure the ends of each block are square to the hole) and put a piece of 8mm steel rod or 8mm threaded rod up the centre. You may get away with aluminium rod if the weight is a concern.

Polyurethane glue will hold the rod in place if you rough-up the outside - unless you want to counter-drill the ends of the stick and use nuts on the end of threaded rod.

HTH
Jon

I agree with this and the last sentence about counter sinking the end and using nuts will also help to clamp the segments while it dries. Threaded rod would be ideal as it will give the glue something to bond to

 

[woodfarmer]

I also agree with the two previous posts.

Turning it around slightly you could if you wish do it this way.
bore the segments with a forstner bit so that the segments will just slide over a thin wall steel tube.
thread the segments onto the tube using Araldite.
turn to suit.
You can now fit either the handle plain or make a sword stick

Either way the hollow space could be handy for carrying something useful.

Hope this gives you an idea.

 

[Bodrighy]

It is almost guaranteed to snap as said. You need that metal insert. I would also use something like cascamite which is more liquid and will seep into the end grain giving it a bit of extra strength.

Pete

 

[Froggy]

Before I read any of these replies a friend came round to visit and said 'I'd put a threaded rod through that if I were you'! However I now have another question, because while I was waiting for replies I started on the other cane which is one piece of oak and I have had to stop because at about 40mm it is flexing like buggery. How do I combat that please?

Thank you for your replies so far.

 

[ericdockum]

Do you have/plan to use a centre steady? I would be interested to hear if you can turn this assembly with a metal rod without one, or are indeed planning to use one.

I'm currently on the hunt for some second hand rollerblade wheels to make a steady for a similar task. Many homebuilt examples are on the web, look for "wood lathe centre steady" images and take it from there.

Of course the steady doesn't have to go exactly in the centre of the workpiece, in fact better not, the workpiece is acting as a vibrating string, so you need to make the wavelength short. I am planning a conventional centre steady, with also one based on a magnetic base to additionally constrain the work so as to minimise the wavelength induced in the string.

I have got all the bits for this but need a) the rollerblade wheels, and b) the time. Maybe by end next week

cheers,
Eric

 

[monkeybiter]

You can now fit either the handle plain or make a sword stick

Just to make you aware, manufacture of a swordstick is illegal in the UK

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...and_offensive_weapons_information_GDS_FAQ.pdf

 

[Spindle]

Hi

You can damp the vibration by wrapping your fingers around the work and applying very light pressure.

Tailstock pressure will induce bowing and associated vibration - try to turn long items by driving with a chuck and just locating the tailstock to remove any radial slack. Don't use a steb centre or even a normal four point drive, both require sufficient tailstock pressure to induce bowing.

A centre steady will help but is not essential.

Regards Mick

 

[ericdockum]

I make some sticks, but not a full length turned one yet (see my previous post). This is my next project.

I often use M4 or M6 studding to reinforce the connection between the handle and the stick, and especially where layers of horn, bone or dissimilar woods are incorporated as discs to give a ringed effect, however the weight adjusts the feel and balance of the stick. For me a stick should of course look good for other people to see, but key is how it "comes to the hand" and feels to the user. If it is clumsy or too heavy then it will never get used and just collect dust.

A full length steel centre might add to the overall weight a bit. I have recently been using short lengths of fibreglass rod/tube such as you make tent poles of these days for the same purpose as the studding, although not as a full length. It is more flexible than the steel, but is of a similar density to the wood so does not upset the feel so much. It glues ok if you rough it up a bit.

Interested to hear how it goes, meanwhile I will bash on with making a centre steady.....

 

[Woodmonkey]

Why steel rod, surely dowel would do. If drilled to the right thickness the dowel will be a nice fit and with some glue will be plenty strong enough.

 

[ericdockum]

Actually I usually use an old school spoke shave to make a taper on sticks, (+ sweat).... but I can't mention that here as it has no rotating parts :lol:

Now I have a lathe, however...

 

[Froggy]

Hi Eric, Thanks for that. I did research this a little before starting and found an American turner on youtube who used his sons rollerblade wheels to make a centre steady, but it looked like an awful lot of work and I have seen another chap who didn't use anything so thought I might get away with a 'little vibration'. Can you buy centre steadies rather than make them?

 

[Froggy]

Hi Woodmonkey, While sat here discussing this with my friend we came up with the same idea - wood dowel. However the threaded rod (studding) would help (possibly) with the rigidity. A lot to think about....

 

[ericdockum]

I know of at least one commercial make of centre steady, Robert Sorby on the Stiles and Bates site, others may be available. Too much money for me, and also I have a cast bed lathe so I don't know how it would fit. Someone here may have done that. Interesting to note the wheel position on the Robert Sorby one though, three wheels 90 degrees apart, rather than the three wheels at 120 degrees than most of the home made ones go for.

Also have a search for the magsteady, David Reed Smith. Interesting idea for an additional steady, perhaps use between the centre steady and the end away from the cutting area to tune out the vibes, or perhaps behind the cutting area instead of having fingers on the spinning wood. I will also try to make with the spare wheels left over from the roller blades. By chance the magnetic base just arrived this afternoon, less than 11 quid off an auction site, sticks very well to my lathe bed, turn the switch and it sticks, very easy to set up. Now just need those rollerblade wheels.

Point is well taken from Spindle, use a chuck one end and centre with the tailstock, putting the workpiece in compression will make things worse.

Cheers, Eric

 

[procell]

I agree with the comments about a central reinforcing rod. As for the glue to use I have recently come across Gorilla glue which is very strong. May be worth checking out.

 

[Spindle]

Hi

Gorilla glue is polyurethane glue, I'm not sure it would be too good when turning or sanding, I would expect it to melt and smear. I could be wrong but I wouldn't use it personally for those reasons - I'd use epoxy, (araldite).

Regards Mick

 

[jpt]

Richard Findley makes a lot of walking sticks it is well worth searching for a post of his where he did a wip. He also uses a very simple but effective centre steady it can be seen in the 3rd picture down in this thread post505266.html?hilit=%20steady#p505266 The other bonus is it is cheap and easy to make.

john

 

[paul-c]

hi
instead of rollerblade wheels you could just use bearings and put some rubber or leather around them so they don't mark your work.
they are also cheaper i would imagine.
best of luck with whatever you decide.
paul-c

 

[Froggy]

Sorry I had to go off line, some friends turned up (pardon the pun!) and I had to stop work. Thanks for all your replies, I'll digest them tonight and come up with a plan of attack tomorrow. I'll let you know how I get on.

Cheers Froggy.