Forged hold fast's

[David C]

Don't know,
but I had the Records in the beginning and they tended to make the work fidget at the crucial moment.

David

 

[Paul Chapman]

Is it just that the record ones are bad example or is it the concept of the screw holdfast that is as you describe?

I've had a Record holdfast for about 30 years. I don't use it much these days. One of the reasons is that as you tighten up the screw the wood that you are trying to clamp moves slightly. Sometimes this won't matter but at other times it will and is really irritating. I don't think it is a problem peculiar to the Record and would tend to happen with that pattern of holdfast. Not sure if it happens with the Veritas, which I believe is the same general pattern but does not use a metal collar in the bench top. Perhaps someone who uses the Veritas could comment?

Paul :wink:

 

[Alf]

Don't recall being conscious of the Veritas moving the wood as I tighten up, but on the other hand I'm not sure really how vital that small movement might be or if I unconciously allow for it anyway. My quibble with the Marples/Record variety is the metal collar complicates bench flattening. I've got one somewhere, sans collar, but I doubt I'll ever both finding a collar and fitting it. Not to a bench anyway.

Cheers, Alf

 

[Anonymous]

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[Paul Chapman]

My quibble with the Marples/Record variety is the metal collar complicates bench flattening.

Good point, Alf. However, if you don't have a hardwood bench and the top is made of something relatively soft, say MDF, the metal collar might be necessary to avoid excessive wear. A holdfast of the Record/Veritas type can exert considerable pressure and I could envisage the holes drilled for it in an MDF bench top soon becoming elongated :wink:

Paul

 

[Paul Chapman]

Would the others work anyway if you just dropped them into a hole of the right diameter?

Hi Jacob,

I think the Record would work without a collar. The action of tightening it forces it to an angle slightly off vertical and there are indentations along the back of the post which would tend to grip on the top edge of the hole :wink:

Paul

 

[Anonymous]

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[engineer one]

there are in fact a number of books about shaker furniture,
and many amreican mags contain articles about it,
but too much i agree only shows the outside, not the construction.

paul :wink:

 

[Frank D.]

My Veritas holdfasts are some of the most-used tools in my shop (my bench doesn't have any vises). I've never noticed the work moving as I tighten them, but I just went and double-checked: nothing moved at all.

 

[Anonymous]

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[David C]

Quote from page 42 of Alan Peters' book, 'Cabinetmaking the Professional Approach' now disgracefully out of print.

"It should be perfectly flat, and dressed periodically to ensure this; and its surface needs to be waxed so that any spillage of glue, for example , will simply peel off".

also "you need to treat your bench as a precious piece of equipment and care for it as you would the bed of your planer".

"And if you must repair the lawnmower on its surface, or are using resin, protect it with a sheet of hardboard first, or better still have other bench surfaces set aside for such activities".

David Charlesworth

 

[Anonymous]

David, I was having a smirk today :lol: :lol: thinking how rediculuos it would have been to have made lets say a plough beam with guilt ormoulu harness chain fittings or a barn door with string inlays and veneered panels :roll: or a gents rocooco commode with a suffolk latch and strap and pintle hinges on the folding bit :roll: :roll: :lol:
Your comments about distinct trades of joiner and cabinet maker brought a sense of proportion. The great thing about wood work's is that it can encompass such diverse activities. Personally I gravitate more towrads what Jacob described as counrty furniure type joinery. I like the type of sound simple joinery you see especially in rural france where wood items have a certain character which you cannet get with routers and belt sanders. And of course a sharp joiners axe is a much under rated tool as well :wink:
Cheers Mr Spanton

 

[David C]

Very fond of country furniture myself. Though the stuff which gets put in expensive French ski chalets is rather weird, generally knocked up out of wormy old floorboards.....

I understand one aspect of this this to be the local craftsman-joiner-carpenter-undertaker's version of what was fashionable in the big bad city, simplified.

Possibly made with fruitwoods, oak ash beech etc rather than the prohibitively expensive fashionable woods like Mahogany Satinwood or Rosewood.

Chris Becksvoort kindly showed me round the Sabbath Day Lake Shaker community in Maine.

I was surprised to see the earlier rustic style, not dissimilar from any working farmers furniture, and also the later more decorated Victorian style of work. The classic refined simple style which we see on a regular basis apparently only existed over a 40 year period.

David

 

[Anonymous]

This is a good example of what I mean

These are mostly english, non gentry, non peasent stuff!!

I recently saw a local showroom with a notice outside-"solid furniture, NO mdf, NO flat pack, NO chipboard..." you get the idea. I thought oh this looks promising lets have a look what this local maker is up to. I saw a oak dresser and I said was this made locally? he says yes, in china :roll: :roll: they export red oke from America send it to sweat shops in xiandong or wherever and the suits make a killing :roll: :roll: :roll: perhaps some of that "chalet furniture" comes from china as well??

 

[Anonymous]

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[Anonymous]

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[Anonymous]

Just pictures from the web
My Dad tried tyo get me interested in this sort of stuff when I was young but its not till now age 45 that its begun to mean anything to me.
With winsdor chairs the older the better as far as I'm concerned. The ones with gothick splats claw feet cabrioile legs etc are missing the point. In fact I dislike most all english winsor forms but prefer the welsh 3 leg back stool and the irish gibsons. Its the puritannical streak in me doesnt apreciate ostentacious ornamnet :shock: :wink: And I like the understudied "wonkiness" of some furniture types as well.
That elm top on the tripod table is unbelievable!!
Cheers Mr Spanton

 

[Anonymous]

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[bugbear]

Cabinetmakers need flat true surfaces and use them almost like an engineer uses a surface plate. Try hand planing 5/16" hardwood drawer sides on a not flat bench.

My scruffy bench is flat enough honest! Most of the marks are in, not above, the surface. No prob hand planing 5/16" hardwood drawer sides. Don't need a reference surface as such but would use winding sticks, straight edges or a pair of battens etc. We have ways of making things flat!

If your bench isn't flat, the problem David refers to is the thin workpiece flexing under the planing stroke.

If the bench is (e.g.) concave, the thin workpiece will conform to the bench under the pressure of the planing stroke. Hence (obviously?), the nice flat surface you cut on the upper face will NOT be parallel to the other face of the workpiece when you pick it up (and the workpiece resumes it's natural state)

This may be confusing

Your bench must (therefore) be as accurate as you wish your work to be.

I had this problem (in spades!) when trying to plane 36x1x1 timber...

BugBear

 

[Anonymous]

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