mark sanger
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gasmansteve":pnlpn5m5 said:Hi guys
Sorry for delay replying.
So I gather to utilise the `golden ratio` with regard to woodturning you must use it with the whole object including lids/handles etc and not just like in mine the main form?.
Then this would require a handle up to point C below
and also the handle/lid should also be made to conform to the ratio itself too?.
Getting a bit complicated now :?
Steve
Hi Steve.
Yes in the answer to the golden ration. and no.
Firstly this is the way I work. It does not mean I am right but just the way I do it.
When I am making an item I see it as one entity. It is say a lidded form, box with a lid, etc etc.
So being one entity then the golden ratio should be applied to it as a whole.
I do not work to the 1.61 figure. It is just to complicated and time consuming to work it out. What I work to is thirds which is easier to work out quickly by the eye.
So if I make a form I make the main form 2/3 of the over all height of the piece. I work approximately but as close as I can by eye to this as long as it is there about I have found generally I can get away with it.
The the lid I make no more than 1/3 the diameter of the main form.
The base no more than a 1/3 of the main form.
When putting a finial on the lid then each part I break down to the third/ratio rule.
IE the finial and lid I make a total height equalling half the height of the main form. So when it is put it on the top it becomes 1/3 of the piece as a whole.
The components within the finial I also try to keep within the third rule. If you look at the form I have posted below you will see the dimensioning of the shoulder and the finial. Because the finial on this one has a bead included and it draws the eye you can get away with not totally holding to the rule. However if you measure the bead and the first part of the hook you will see that it equates to around a 1/3 inclusive of both parts.
The shoulder of the main form on my work I have so that the centre of the curve of the shoulder is around 2/3 rds up. This I have found becomes more critical with a sharper change of line as with yours. The reason for this is that it draws the eye down to it so conflicts more with the lid detail.
However I also continue/connect the flow/line coming off of the shoulder with the curve in the hook of the finial. This way the eye is not bombarded with lots of different lines/changes of direction but is led up from the shoulder, into the curve of the finial which then takes the eye up into infinitum.
See pic 1
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For a horizontal finial like the one you have I still apply the rule of thirds/ratio.
IE if you look at the lid on pic 2 you will see the lid while less than a third of the diameter of the light wood area it is offset 1/3 of the diameter in from the outside the carved chilli is 2/3 rds the diameter of the form with the black bead being approximately 1/3 the diameter of the lid.
Not everything has to relate directly to the ratio but try to get as many parts within the parts to relate if possible.
This is why some designs work and some do not.
When making a form be it modern or classical all items should relate in some way back to the next etc. If you look at Greek pottery you will find that it was worked out to a complex mathematical formula.
The chilli is obviously not 1/3 the hight of the form. But due to it being a horizontal entity the eye sees it as a full stop to the overall piece, so is not confused by the breaking of the rule.
I hope this helps to show how I go about working. The rule can be broken but if it is going to be broken is should be done in an obvious way so that the eye makes no mistake about it. If not we see things as not quite right but will not like them as much as something which is right.
Think of a beautiful/stunning women we do not know why we find them stunning but if we looked into it it would be due to the proportions of their body, face everything is perfect and relates back to each other.
Sorry I have waffled.
pic 1 and 2 below
