flattening chisel backs with lapping film

[marcus]

I think we're basically agreeing with each other!

To come back to the OP, Madge asked about whether a 40 micron lapping film was too fine for what she needed, but that is only equivalent to a p360 oilstone, which is not really engineering levels of fineness anyway....

My preferred method for flattening is to use standard aluminium oxide paper on a flat machine table and use that with a bit of oil. Starting at p60 and working up from there is pretty quick and saves the stones. I'm nervous about using the side of the wheel as I got told horror stories when I was training....

 

[MickCheese]

Please. Please. Please stop!

Nine pages and still going.

Help!

Mick

 

[Jacob]

Obviously it's a waste of time and energy.

Which is why so many people don't bother posting on here any more.......

Cheers :wink:

Paul

Yers terrible innit. So quiet. Only 9 pages; that's nothing nowadays.
If more people bothered to post this thread could be much much longer!

 

[GazPal]

more emphasis needs to be placed upon tooling practices than the tools themselves.

The best craftspeople I have met, ie the ones producing the finest work have, without exception, cared a great deal about both. I think it has probably always been that way. I'm one hundred percent sure that the best and most skilled stone age wood carvers were the ones with the shiniest flints — and the best hand skills.

Also, how do you know that someone who posts about ways to make a chisel sharper isn't also making things? I'm sure there are a few people who do just sharpen tools and not making anything (which is their right if they enjoy it), but it's an unjustified assumption that because people are interested in tool sharpness they are not also producing work with those tools.

I learned long ago never to assume anything. I'm speaking from a crafting perspective and not tool study. Sharpening typically indicates a desire to use the tool being sharpened. Tool study rightly belongs within the realms of toolmaking and historical society such as TATHS.

Good craftsmen and women genuinely care for their tools and treat them with due respect. I've worked alongside many good craftsmen, but very few spend time polishing tools. Primarily because you're far too tired at the end of a heavy shift at work to be bothered with polishing the living daylights out of everything in sight. IMHO good tool maintenance is vital and tools are seldom roughly handled, but a craftsman's interest in his/her tools is seldom taken to the extent of altar worship.

Why on earth should my views rile you so? I'm simply stating perspective based upon almost half a century of experience as a professional within the field of woodworking and at no point have I stated anyone lacks the right to follow their own route. The point regarding over emphasis upon sharpening tends to revolve around time spent away from crafting and the risk of over analysing the various process involved at the cost of furthering crafting involvement.

Sharpening isn't and needn't be thought of as science unless you're a metallurgist or blade manufacturer.

 

[marcus]

Why on earth should my views rile you so?

They don't! By and large I agree with you!

 

[Lons]

Yers terrible innit. So quiet. Only 9 pages; that's nothing nowadays.
If more people bothered to post this thread could be much much longer!

Not a case of being bothered. More like already read this stuff in previous posts. I'm sure you just cut and paste it. It's like a broken record on autoplay sometimes.
There you go, I've made it a bit longer :wink:

Bob

 

[Lons]

I've been learning loads of you lot, of course we all have our own ways of doing things in life but it's down to me to choose my own way, this forum has provided people like me with the opportunity to hear from lots of different people with lots of different views, pretty handy really considering the many different scenarios i'm going to be coming across when i get going! Dean

Sensible approach imo Dean. Take the advice, give anything you fancy a go and make up your own mind what suits your way of working.

At first I thought that arguing with Jacob was like taking candy from a baby. Then I realised it's not as interesting as that. It's like taking candy from a baby who's incapable of realising that the candy's gone.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Bob

 

[powertools]

I have just spent 2 days rebuilding an engine.
To me the joy of wood work is that I don't need to work to 1 thou of an inch.

 

[carlb40]

I have just spent 2 days rebuilding an engine.
To me the joy of wood work is that I don't need to work to 1 thou of an inch.

That's because you haven't flattened and polished the backs of your chisels enough :mrgreen:

 

[marcus]

That's because you haven't flattened and polished the backs of your chisels enough

(hammer)

 

[bobbybirds]

I will always "flatten" the backs of my chisels and plane irons when I first get them about an inch or so behind the cutting edge. I don't go for a mirror polish though. It takes a very short period of time and confirms for me whether or not I am starting with a flat tool. After that initial couple minutes of work, I never look back and just carry on sharpening normally. I don't see why this is considered a waste of time (OMG 2 minutes of my life used up once in the lifetime of a tool!) as in my mind, it really is more just about confirming the starting condition of a tool. If it was already flat enough, very little effort was required, and if it was totally out of whack, I would now know what I need to do to either fix or replace it...

 

[Jacob]

It's a waste of time when people are spending an hour or more at it and still not getting it right(see OP). 2 minutes is a bit excessive but fine!

 

[Cheshirechappie]

It's a waste of time when people are spending an hour or more at it and still not getting it right(see OP). 2 minutes is fine!

Now what are we talking about?

 

[GazPal]

I'm wondering if this - sometimes - excessive amount of time spent flattening is due to newcomers not realising there's protective lacquer on most new chisel/plane blades which needs stripping before they begin. The presence of lacquer could also account for false readings when initial checks are made.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Off tack, but I wonder how many people strip the lacquer from hard point saws? - it makes **** of a difference to the use of the finer toothed ones.

 

[bobbybirds]

I'm wondering if this - sometimes - excessive amount of time spent flattening is due to newcomers not realising there's protective lacquer on most new chisel/plane blades which needs stripping before they begin. The presence of lacquer could also account for false readings when initial checks are made.

I made this exact mistake the first time I tried to flatten my first set of chisels. Only took one to figure it out though...

 

[GazPal]

I'm wondering if this - sometimes - excessive amount of time spent flattening is due to newcomers not realising there's protective lacquer on most new chisel/plane blades which needs stripping before they begin. The presence of lacquer could also account for false readings when initial checks are made.

I made this exact mistake the first time I tried to flatten my first set of chisels. Only took one to figure it out though...

I think most have made the same or similar mistakes at some point in their learning. Deviation from absolute flat in a blade is virtually imperceivable in the majority of cases.

Off tack, but I wonder how many people strip the lacquer from hard point saws? - it makes **** of a difference to the use of the finer toothed ones.

I think it'll be a fair old mixture of results with statements between "Never done it and don't need to" to "I do it with every saw and love the end result"

 

[Harbo]

http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/106 ... ng-eletter

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Life's too short - It might look nice, but it serves no earthly purpose.

 

[GazPal]

Ref Harbo's FWW link:

Method and timescale can vary greatly depending upon the quality of steel involved and abrasive used. General tolerances for run of the mill (Construction grade including cladding, building blocks, flag stones, block pavers and kerbs) granite and concrete surfacing slabs are 3.2mm +/- per 910mm run and - although both materials can be carefully ground (Using rubbing blocks) to much finer tolerances - the amount of work involved can vary greatly with different batches of stone and concrete. A granite slab may appear perfectly flat, but it's surprising just how good a finish you can achieve on a far from true surface, as the "If it looks good, it is good" rule of thumb often applies.

Much of the discussion has revolved around the continuing fervor for flattening an entire chisel blade length or flattening plane irons to the point where main body terminates ahead of the slot, but nothing truly contrary to the need to refine both bevel and face to a matching degree of polish. Level of finish/polish depends upon end use and resulting improvements in edge retention and sharpness, but returns can diminish by quite a degree when taken beyond 3,000 grit. Especially so if one considers the fact some timbers are far more abrasive than others and a razor-like chisel/plane iron edge can be lost during the first contact between tool and working medium.