flattening a course waterstone

[mickthetree]

Got a set of waterstones for my birthday last month and they are 'mostly' great!!

King 800, 1200 and a course 220 grit stone as well.

The 800 and 1200 I am keeping flat on my float glass with wet and dry. easy enough. But the course waterstone wears very quickly and is a real pig to flatten. Takes ages using 60 grit paper and the paper wears almost instantly.

Anyone got any suggestions? I think I should have got a course diamond stone for plane and chisel backs and used the 800 and 1200 kings thereafter.

 

[hamburglar]

Had similar problems. Saw a great demo from the Lie Nielsen guy Deneb at Rycotewood recently. He uses a granite plate (£35 from Axminster), though you could use thick float glass. To this he sticks 220 and 400 grit sandpaper, which he then uses to do coarse grinding before resorting to the stones. The huge advantage is the maintenance free flatness.

He doesn't flatten the entire back of the plane blade, but uses the ruler trick. Saves alot of time. Well described by David Charlesworth.

I ended up buying the DMT duo coarse stone to flatten my stones. Would have loved to get the Shapton one, but couldn't justify the cost. DMT was cheaper in the USA. A friend brought it back for me.

Hope this helps.

Hamburglar

 

[mickthetree]

Yes, I use 80 grit wet and dry for really bad edges and grinding new bevels, but like to move to the 220 stone before the 800 otherwise I spend ages on the 800 and it wears quicker.

I'm sure there must be a quicker way to dress this stone.

 

[AndyT]

You could try one of these - which are sold especially for flattening waterstones:

£11.70 from Axminster: http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-Ice-Bear-Ice-Bear-Ceramic-Flattening-Stone-32262.htm

 

[mickthetree]

Hi Andy. Yeah I was going to order one of those with my stones but there are 4 reviews all saying that it is nowhere near flat itself.

I've read one site that suggests that carborundum grit is the only way to get these flat.

I've tried a sheet of 80 grit Norton emery cloth for 5 minutes but it hardly did a thing and its still nowhere near flat and the paper is blunt.

 

[DaveL]

I don't use water stones so cannot recommend anything from my own use, but I have heard that dry wall mesh is good for this task.
Matthew at workshop heaven has some, here.

 

[mickthetree]

Excellent Dave. I'd heard of this but didn't honestly know What it was or where to get it!

Another order for Matthew ;-)

 

[Eric The Viking]

("... and CUE the man about to make an idiot of himself...")

... so I've been experimenting with 'scary sharp' with generally good results. For the first time ever I've got several chisels with edges good enough to split paper edge-on (from a standing start with thoroughly knicked/knackered edges, lousy bevels, etc.). I have destroyed one plane blade by distorting it whilst tempering it, but it was my worst one, so not a total disaster: a 'learning' experience and a good excuse to turn Japanese (won't need to go cooking up one of them, I hope).

I'm also just about to shell out for a new wet, slow-speed grindstone (prob. the Axy one, as it's on offer, but I'm not completely decided yet), which should take care of coarse bevels, and put a leather mop on the other wheel for stropping.

So 'tiz on the subject of Japannery I timidly ask: given the lovely edges I'm now getting with 2500-grit wet & dry (limited only by pitting on older blades, it seems), what's the advantage of a Japanese waterstone? Is it faster, easier or cleaner? Does it hone better? Given my consumption of coarse wet & dry, it may possibly be cheaper(!), but I put a lot of that down to learning and the need to grind/clean new bevels on a lot of tools at once.

I'm horribly aware that this has overtones of which end you open your egg, and it's probably been done to death many times down the years. I've tried, and don't get on well with the forum search engine, so please be gentle...

 

[Beardo16]

I asked a similar question some tme ago and these were the answers.

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/flat ... 36453.html

Hope you find the answer in the link provided.

 

[Woody Alan]

I've tried, and don't get on well with the forum search engine, so please be gentle...

It might be worth you having a go with the google "advanced search" you should be able to see it to the right of the normal google box that you put your text into. When in advanced search put what you are looking for in the forum in the first box and specify in the "within a site or domain" box futher down that you want it to search www.ukworkshop.co.uk

Alan

 

[Eric The Viking]

I asked a similar question some tme ago and these were the answers.

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/flat ... 36453.html

Hope you find the answer in the link provided.

Many thanks - sorry for the (now obvious) repetition of my question, and yes, there's a great deal of useful information in that thread!

Has anyone else been persuaded to get a Worksharp?

 

[Chris Knight]

I don't like waterstones although I do use an extremely fine one for final polishing of a bevel. I flatten mine once or twice a year with a diamond stone.

 

[Ironballs]

I use a Norton Flattening Stone to keep my waterstones level, the 800 grit needs it quite often as it does wear quickly

 

[milkman]

i have a concrete block in the garden i use. works well!

 

[mickthetree]

Hi Milkman

Is this on a course waterstone?

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Throw the 220 stone away.

They stay flat about 3.5 seconds. Then they grind a camber into your blade, which will make you curse in total frustration as you know that you will have to start again. So you learn. You flatten the 220 stone on 80 grit sandpaper, and flatten the blade for 3.4 seconds, keeping under the danger period, flatten the stone again, and repeat this process until the blade is flat again. So, after a mere 5.6 hours you are back at Square One. Well done!

Finally the penny drops. Use sandpaper for the low end of the spectrum. 80 grit if you are desparate. 120 grit is more helpful. 240 grit is the next step up, then 400, and on to your 800 ...

Get a 6000 or 8000 (better) to compliment your 1200. Most sharpening only starts at 1200.

Throw the 220 stone away.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[mickthetree]

Hi Derek

I really appreciate your honest advice. I arrived at that very decision this morning after spending another 15 minutes and 2 sheets of 80 grit with nothing happening!

Think I'm going to chalk this one down to experience and forget the £35 it cost.

I've been using some 120 and 240 grit wet and dry with great success on my glass, then moving onto the 800 and 1200 stones.

I think the jump to 6000 is too much so over time I'll probably get a 4000 and 8000.

The bit I'm not so clear on is at what point do you begin to form the burr? and do you remove it on that stone and try to create another on the next stone? or leave it and keep building the burr till finally removing it on the final hone?

I havent got any leather to use my veritas honing compound as yet. will a piece of MDF do? think I've seen that somewhere.

Many thanks again

Paul

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Hi Paul

You hone until you feel a wire edge (burr). If you fail to feel the wire edge, then hone some more. Do not stop until you feel the wire edge. The wire edge lets you know that you have honed across the face and that you have an intersection with the back of the blade. Without this all you have is a rounded edge, which if you move to the next stone, all you dois polish the rounded edge.

Once you have the wire edge, remove it by flattening the back of the blade on the 6000 stone. Let's backtrack here a bit ... BEFORE you hone the bevel, you MUST flatten the back of your blade to the grit level you plan to use on the bevel face. Once you get that far, then never use a lower grit on the back of the blade.

The wire edge is your best friend when it comes to honing. It tells you that you have honed across the face of the bevel. For that reason I always remove it after each stone. That way I can judge each stone's progress.

You do not need a 4000 stone. The jump from 1200 to 6000 is just fine. I'd only consider a 4000 if you went from 1200 to 8000 or 12000.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[mickthetree]

Hi Paul
You do not need a 4000 stone. The jump from 1200 to 6000 is just fine. I'd only consider a 4000 if you went from 1200 to 8000 or 12000.

In that case its user error as I find it very hard to raise a wire edge on my 6000 grit stone.

Sorry, please forgive my ignorance, but if I need to "hone" the blade would I go straight to the 800? Or is that considered griding territory? I guess this is a question of how bad the blade is, and maybe also the width of the plane iron / chisel?

I have just finished flattening the backs of all of my plane blades and chisels (AI chisels tops only as advised by workshopheaven) to 6000 grit and they have a nice mirror polish. Could use the honing compound I think though.

 

[Philly]

Mick
Use your coarse stone to raise the burr, the fine stone to polish it away. When its gone you're ready to use the tool!
Cheers
Philly