flattening a course waterstone

[Saint Simon]

I went to the Alexandra Palace show at the weekend which was quite interesting. Too many machines, plenty of dramatic woodturning and quite a few stalls of interest to me with my Luddite tendencies.

I got talking to John LLoyd on the CHT stand and was easily tempted into buying a pair of waterstones as I haven't been totally convinced by my scary sharp efforts over the last couple of years. This stems from both the time it takes working up the grades and its relatively high maintenance. He also gave me the confidence to put aside my jigs and to try to sharpen by hand.

Anyway, first impressions are very positive. First an initial hollow grind with school's Tormek and then by hand on just 1000 and 8000 waterstones. So I have cut out quite a few steps on the grit ladder and am no longer setting the blade in a jig. All my efforts have been with wide plane blades and have yet to try anything narrow. I think things are significantly sharper and I haven't had much practice yet.

However, my reason for posting on this thread is to ask whether anyone has any experience of the Norton flattening stone. Earlier posters referred to poor reports on the Ice Bear version so some advice on this alternative would be appreciated. I am currently using an old DMT coarse bench stone but wonder how long it will last.

(Another plus to the show for a beginner like me was to see RC in the flesh).

thanks
Simon

 

[mickthetree]

Hey Simon

I'm really pleased with my 800 and 1200 grit stones and feel like I've had real success tonight after the suggestions on this thread.

Its interesting what you say about using a wheel (Tormek) as I've been grinding a primary bevel using a jig on wet and dry then onto honing. I really like the idea of the hollow grind as you dont have to lift up the blade to form the secondary bevel (if my understanding is right).

I'm having to do this at the moment and find it a little tricky. Albeit much better tonight.

I too was interested in the norton flattening stone after reading the other poor reviews of the Ice Bear.

I did see Chems using his tormek stone then a strop wheel on the side and it did give a sharper edge than I have been able to achieve (until tonight ;-)


(as I write this I've just noticed a cut on the back of my hand where I tested one of the chisels ;-)

 

[Philly]

I've been using the Norton flattening stone for about a year now - works great and much cleaner than dry wall or sandpaper. Well worth the money.
Hope this helps,
Philly

 

[mickthetree]

Philly

Is the norton flattening stone much smaller than stones you are flattening with it?

And if so, does this not dish the stones?

 

[paulm]

I use the norton flattening stone, no problems with it being flat/true, works great.

I think it's possible to over-analyse this sharpening lark :shock:, keep it simple like John Lloyd and Philly suggest and get on with the woodworking would be my suggestion, not that I actually get time to do much myself so that may be a bit hypocritical :lol:

Cheers, Paul

 

[Saint Simon]

Philly

Have you had to flatten it very often and if so how did you do it?

Simon

 

[mickthetree]

Paul. I know just what you are saying. But unfortunately you can't get on with the woodwork unless your tools are sharp. ;-)

I think that's part of the problem of learning from books and the internet, you can spend ages working out how to do something that someone could show you how to do in a few minutes.

But its all fun learning!!

 

[milkman]

Hi Milkman

Is this on a course waterstone?

Yes, its almost worn away now and I think I'll try the sand paper method in future

 

[Philly]

No, the Norton flattening stone is much bigger than a 8 x 3 inch stone - makes it simple to flatten most waterstones. And I've not needed to flatten it yet - I'm very pleased with it.
Hope this helps,
Philly

 

[bugbear]

No, the Norton flattening stone is much bigger than a 8 x 3 inch stone - makes it simple to flatten most waterstones. And I've not needed to flatten it yet - I'm very pleased with it.
Hope this helps,
Philly

This sounds like an infinite nest - how DO you flatten a flattening stone?

BugBear

 

[Philly]

I believe you can flatten it with sandpaper on a flat surface - sure that's what the Norton flyer says.
Philly

 

[pedder]

I flaten my flatening stones on a regular basis. Flatening stones? Yes, more than one!

3!!!

I made them myself from hard clinker. (Gully Clinker)
For an initial flatening I used a cement sidewalk flagstone.
After that I did what the lense makers did in old days:
Rubbing clinker
#1 on #2,
#1 on #3,
#2 on #3,
#2 on #1,
#3 on #2,
#3 on #1

and start again.
To get more progress I use aluminium corundium powder.

If the stones get convexe or concave, i just repeat the rubbing. 5 minutes. That would work with 3 of theses, too

This way is not my idea, I've learned it from Friedrich Kollenrott sub. #9.1

Cheers Pedder

 

[matthewwh]

A very accurate method - interestingly it's the same principle they use they use for manufacturing accurate straight egdes.

I still find it easier to peel off the film and stick a new bit down though... :twisted:

 

[bugbear]

A very accurate method - interestingly it's the same principle they use they use for manufacturing accurate straight egdes.

Well, to be pedantic, it's used to originate straight edges.

Manufacturing normally involves copying an existing straightedge e.g. the guideways in a surface grinder.

BugBear

 

[yetloh]

I agree with Derek Cohen, the very coarse Japanese water stones are useless as is the flattening stone, Been there done that! Does anyone know anyyone who would like to buy one of each? They do make quite good paper weights.

For really coarse work I use a continous surface 60 grit DMT diamond stone - much cheaper from Dick in Germany than from Axminster - which is also great and very fast for flattening the finer grit water stones of which I am a big fan.

Jim

 

[condeesteso]

Hi Mickthetree - the 220s wear really fast indeed. Forget the Axminster flattening stone - I have one and it isn't flat. Best tip I have seen more than once is a concrete paving slab (the cheap really flat ones) and a big splash of water, really wet... so outside then. I don't use my 220 much these days - it wastes away far too quick. So for the really aggressive first shaping I use coarse wen&dry on plate glass, even used a belt sander belt recently - when restoring the primary bevel on some vintage firmers. I reckon waterstones great from 800 upwards. Coarser than that, use something else and then make nice on the 800.

 

[Jacob]

....used a belt sander belt recently - ....

Belt sander is good as it runs cooler than an ordinary bench wheel (though the blade can still get hot), is wider than most blades and produces a perfect flat bevel (stronger than hollow ground).
You need to make sure that it is wood-dust free, give it a ********, or there is a fire risk from the sparks - I had to put mine out!
Then all you need is an oil-stone and to forget about all that water-stone nonsense. :lol:

How does one flatten paving slabs BTW? Another bit of kit from Axminster? Or work your way down the street?

 

[mickthetree]

thanks for your suggestions chaps. The thread is a bit old now and I have done away with the 220.

I now use abrasive on glass for initial grinding. Works very fast for me. Then go onto waterstones which again work fast for me.

Cheers for the update.