Face masks

[Trainee neophyte]

I only posted it for its entertainment value: there was a time when government manipulation was considered a conspiracy theory, but now it is so mainstream universities write papers on it. The benefits of a private/public partnership I suppose. It's a good job 1984 was a work of fiction, not an instruction manual, or we'd all be in trouble ;-)

 

[selectortone]

Speaking of packed beaches, I notice the MSM are not making such a big fuss this time round as they did with Bournemouth. In fact no-one seems to be talking about Bournemouth anymore :roll:

Six weeks ago most of the infrastructure we have for dealing with influxes of hundreds of thousands of day trippers was still being brought out of mothballs. Toilets, refuse collection, beachside catering, traffic management, etc., etc. Facilities are mostly back in place now. Bournemouth has been a seaside holiday destination for many years after all, so It's not like we aren't able to cope with them in more normal times.

 

[Trainee neophyte]

......My point is that I find it interesting that such effort is put into manipulating the public. Manipulating me. Personally, I prefer not to be manipulated. .....

The trouble is, often as not, it's someone else's government (and/or other unelected vested interests), or their proxies, trying to do the manipulation....

eg https://content.govdelivery.com/attachm ... 281%29.pdf
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3490543/
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53433523
https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... y-public1/
https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... r-spending

The old joke used to be about the marketing director who said "I'm convinced that half my advertising spend is wasted - the trouble is, I don't know which half."
With modern internet/bigdata tools, the truth is that 'advertising' of whatever kind can be much much more effective (a bit like the difference between a 'dumb' bomb and a laser/gps guided munition)...

I've only just had chance to go through your links, which are all fine examples of bending reality for profit (except the Russian electioneering nonsense, which is a fine example of government propaganda for shepherding purposes). I would add to the list the fact that Bill Gates is now the largest funder of the WHO, given that the USA has withdrawn support. What could possibly go wrong? https://www.politico.eu/article/bill-ga ... ul-doctor/

 

[Rorschach]

Speaking of packed beaches, I notice the MSM are not making such a big fuss this time round as they did with Bournemouth. In fact no-one seems to be talking about Bournemouth anymore :roll:

Six weeks ago most of the infrastructure we have for dealing with influxes of hundreds of thousands of day trippers was still being brought out of mothballs. Toilets, refuse collection, beachside catering, traffic management, etc., etc. Facilities are mostly back in place now. Bournemouth has been a seaside holiday destination for many years after all, so It's not like we aren't able to cope with them in more normal times.

That wasn't my point. The Bournemouth issue/ beach issue in general wasn't about the infrastructure it was about the cries of "second wave" "new infections" "they are all going to die". Of course none of that came to pass, just as it didn't with every other mass gathering in the last few months where the MSM went wild over infections going up, and then 2 weeks later when nothing happened they were oddly quiet on the matter.

 

[Blackswanwood]

I've only just had chance to go through your links, which are all fine examples of bending reality for profit (except the Russian electioneering nonsense, which is a fine example of government propaganda for shepherding purposes). I would add to the list the fact that Bill Gates is now the largest funder of the WHO, given that the USA has withdrawn support. What could possibly go wrong? https://www.politico.eu/article/bill-ga ... ul-doctor/

I don’t see why there is a need to be cynical about Bill Gates. He had been on the end of a whole series of allegations from conspiracy theorists ... put Bill Gates Fake News into any search engine and see what cones up.

If any of us had his wealth and were spending it on improving the world I would wager most would have a desire to see tangible results and may be specific about how we wanted it used?

 

[Woody2Shoes]

......My point is that I find it interesting that such effort is put into manipulating the public. Manipulating me. Personally, I prefer not to be manipulated. .....

The trouble is, often as not, it's someone else's government (and/or other unelected vested interests), or their proxies, trying to do the manipulation....

eg https://content.govdelivery.com/attachm ... 281%29.pdf
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3490543/
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53433523
https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... y-public1/
https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... r-spending

The old joke used to be about the marketing director who said "I'm convinced that half my advertising spend is wasted - the trouble is, I don't know which half."
With modern internet/bigdata tools, the truth is that 'advertising' of whatever kind can be much much more effective (a bit like the difference between a 'dumb' bomb and a laser/gps guided munition)...

I've only just had chance to go through your links, which are all fine examples of bending reality for profit (except the Russian electioneering nonsense, which is a fine example of government propaganda for shepherding purposes). I would add to the list the fact that Bill Gates is now the largest funder of the WHO, given that the USA has withdrawn support. What could possibly go wrong? https://www.politico.eu/article/bill-ga ... ul-doctor/

I've noticed before that you seem to have an inexplicable blindspot for the actions of Putin's Russia - maybe you've consumed some of their Kool-Aid (electronic or otherwise)?

I think your animosity towards Bill Gates is misplaced - far more noteworthy is Trump's removal of the US from the WHO.

 

[John Brown]

Bill Gates may not be perfect, but he's trying to make amends for forcing us all to use Windows, weird segmented memory microprocessors and, worst of all, spellchecking us into using "ise" instead of good old-fashioned "ize". He knows he's done some bad things, and he's trying to make up for it by eradicating polio and malaria. We should cut him some slack. There are plenty of other billionaires more worthy of irrational hate.

 

[sploo]

That wasn't my point. The Bournemouth issue/ beach issue in general wasn't about the infrastructure it was about the cries of "second wave" "new infections" "they are all going to die". Of course none of that came to pass, just as it didn't with every other mass gathering in the last few months where the MSM went wild over infections going up, and then 2 weeks later when nothing happened they were oddly quiet on the matter.

I guess I must have imagined the recent rise in infection rates and areas of the UK being locked down again. I'll let my wife (an NHS doctor) know that they're fussing over nothing. I'm sure she'll be relieved; what with all this non-functional PPE they've been given.

 

[Garno]

My GP phones me every 2 weeks to check up on me, (previously before Covid I had to go and see him) and because I am classed as vulnerable or most at risk he has advised me to continue lockdown and not leave the house. He says the choice is now my own to make but if he had to make the choice he would choose lockdown for me and everyone else who are in my category. Covid he says is still very much out there and is still killing people on a daily basis. When he last phoned 12 days ago he said it had been 4 days since the last covid patient had been under his jurisdiction but said 1 persons foolish behaviour could change all that.

People are acting as though the fight against covid has been won, they say it's not safe enough for them to return to work, yet they deem it safe enough to visit tourist areas in the thousands, they are happy to take 80% of their wage but unhappy to take the advice offered to them whilst collecting it. Even people on these forums are saying they will not wear a mask or have a vaccine (when or if one gets made) out of principle, I would be prepared to wager that if those same people were to catch Covid after refusing the vaccine they would be saying it was the fault of others as it was not explained properly what could happen should they not take it. Already in certain postcodes throughout the country we are seeing spikes and increases in the number of people with Covid, it would be interesting to know if those areas adhered to the wearing of masks advice as other parts of the country have, my guess would be that they have not and my reasoning would be that the spikes would be a lot wider spread and no doubt cover the whole of the country.

For what it is worth, I see the lockdown as being a safety guard for myself, I also see or believe that the wearing of masks outdoors is also a safety guard and when a vaccine becomes available I would also see that as a safety guard, god only knows I will take any potential safety guard that I possibly could, when faced with the great possibility of death the guidelines and advice given to us all makes a lot of sense.

When some members on here talk about the guidelines and/or mandatory vaccinations as some kind of manipulative scheme it saddens me, it saddens me that our society has reached a stage where it has become every man for himself, it saddens me that every bit of advice given that may save lives is questioned from a negative viewpoint, it saddens me that society has become so selfish and self centred and cares nothing for anyone else. These people will always be the first to shout and try and justify themselves to the point of looking foolish, yet still they will continue. These are usually people who risk nothing, they are unable to take genuine fears of those most at risk into account. I cannot stress enough what it feels like to be to scared to even leave my own home due to the risk of getting killed by some self centred idiot who believes the rules are just a manipulation tool, would that person call at my house and apologise to my wife for killing me with covid? chances are they would not care.

I am going to be selfish and upset some posters on this thread, I am going to remain inside my home for as long as my GP advises me to do so, if someone knocks on the door I will continue to answer from the window roughly 4M away and wear a mask whilst doing so, I will also sleep at night knowing that no one has ever or would ever catch covid from me.

 

[Woody2Shoes]

Speaking of packed beaches, I notice the MSM are not making such a big fuss this time round as they did with Bournemouth. In fact no-one seems to be talking about Bournemouth anymore :roll:

Don't know if the ES meets your definition of MSM but:
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/uk-b ... 20266.html

 

[Rorschach]

Speaking of packed beaches, I notice the MSM are not making such a big fuss this time round as they did with Bournemouth. In fact no-one seems to be talking about Bournemouth anymore :roll:

Don't know if the ES meets your definition of MSM but:
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/uk-b ... 20266.html

It does, I didn't see that, but the article is dated today. The first bournemouth hype was all over every news outlet and social media as well as being mentioned here. I notice that article says it is the third day, not quite the same hype is you get my drift?

EDIT: when I was looking the day before yesterday, this was the only article I could find ironically
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/53519668

 

[Rorschach]

My GP phones me every 2 weeks to check up on me, (previously before Covid I had to go and see him) and because I am classed as vulnerable or most at risk he has advised me to continue lockdown and not leave the house. He says the choice is now my own to make but if he had to make the choice he would choose lockdown for me and everyone else who are in my category. Covid he says is still very much out there and is still killing people on a daily basis. When he last phoned 12 days ago he said it had been 4 days since the last covid patient had been under his jurisdiction but said 1 persons foolish behaviour could change all that.

People are acting as though the fight against covid has been won, they say it's not safe enough for them to return to work, yet they deem it safe enough to visit tourist areas in the thousands, they are happy to take 80% of their wage but unhappy to take the advice offered to them whilst collecting it. Even people on these forums are saying they will not wear a mask or have a vaccine (when or if one gets made) out of principle, I would be prepared to wager that if those same people were to catch Covid after refusing the vaccine they would be saying it was the fault of others as it was not explained properly what could happen should they not take it. Already in certain postcodes throughout the country we are seeing spikes and increases in the number of people with Covid, it would be interesting to know if those areas adhered to the wearing of masks advice as other parts of the country have, my guess would be that they have not and my reasoning would be that the spikes would be a lot wider spread and no doubt cover the whole of the country.

For what it is worth, I see the lockdown as being a safety guard for myself, I also see or believe that the wearing of masks outdoors is also a safety guard and when a vaccine becomes available I would also see that as a safety guard, god only knows I will take any potential safety guard that I possibly could, when faced with the great possibility of death the guidelines and advice given to us all makes a lot of sense.

When some members on here talk about the guidelines and/or mandatory vaccinations as some kind of manipulative scheme it saddens me, it saddens me that our society has reached a stage where it has become every man for himself, it saddens me that every bit of advice given that may save lives is questioned from a negative viewpoint, it saddens me that society has become so selfish and self centred and cares nothing for anyone else. These people will always be the first to shout and try and justify themselves to the point of looking foolish, yet still they will continue. These are usually people who risk nothing, they are unable to take genuine fears of those most at risk into account. I cannot stress enough what it feels like to be to scared to even leave my own home due to the risk of getting killed by some self centred Silly person who believes the rules are just a manipulation tool, would that person call at my house and apologise to my wife for killing me with covid? chances are they would not care.

I am going to be selfish and upset some posters on this thread, I am going to remain inside my home for as long as my GP advises me to do so, if someone knocks on the door I will continue to answer from the window roughly 4M away and wear a mask whilst doing so, I will also sleep at night knowing that no one has ever or would ever catch covid from me.

You are likely upset with me, that's fine. I respect what you say here and I have always defended the rights of individuals to do as they see fit and have always encouraged those most at risk to protect themselves.

All I ask is that those who see risk differently be allowed to live their lives without interference. It matters not one jot to me if you stay at home for 6 months or 6 years if you feel that is necessary to protect yourself. You are also welcome to have any vaccine you like and avoid contact with those you see as potentially dangerous to yourself. Remember though, C19 is not the only thing out that there could kill you if you are as vulnerable as you say, do you take these same precautions every year with flu and other winter respiratory illnesses? You probably should, they kill tens of thousands every year.

I don't see it as selfish to ask be allowed to live my life and ask for that same freedom for others who feel the same. I know the risk, my family knows the risk, if it kills me, then I only have myself to blame exactly the same as when I get into my car and go for a drive (statistically probably as risky as C19 for someone in my demographic).

 

[Woody2Shoes]

....weird segmented memory microprocessors .....

To be fair that wasn't Gates's (page) fault

 

[Garno]

You are likely upset with me, that's fine. I respect what you say here and I have always defended the rights of individuals to do as they see fit and have always encouraged those most at risk to protect themselves.

All I ask is that those who see risk differently be allowed to live their lives without interference. It matters not one jot to me if you stay at home for 6 months or 6 years if you feel that is necessary to protect yourself. You are also welcome to have any vaccine you like and avoid contact with those you see as potentially dangerous to yourself. Remember though, C19 is not the only thing out that there could kill you if you are as vulnerable as you say, do you take these same precautions every year with flu and other winter respiratory illnesses? You probably should, they kill tens of thousands every year.

I don't see it as selfish to ask be allowed to live my life and ask for that same freedom for others who feel the same. I know the risk, my family knows the risk, if it kills me, then I only have myself to blame exactly the same as when I get into my car and go for a drive (statistically probably as risky as C19 for someone in my demographic).

This is the exact reaction I was expecting, What you are saying is that you will do what you deem right regardless of what your actions do to others, the longer you do this the longer those at risk are unable to carry on with a normal life. It bothers you not one jot if those who are vulnerable remain in lockdown for 6 months or 6 years and that they cannot lead ordinary lives, this is providing that you and others can do as they wish.

I think you say these things in the forum for effect, you make out you don't care yet you have signed up to test the vaccines out :? that in my mind makes you an out and out hypocrite. You say one thing and do another, If (touch wood it never happens) your wife or one of your children contacted Covid and had it bad enough that they were hospitalised and their situation became critical I think you would be happy to wear a mask when visiting them or would you argue with the nurses that you should not? we both know the answer to that and so that shows us all that the rules shall be followed when it best suits your situation, the fact that you never really come out and admit to that as it does not suit your argument makes you nothing more than a troll that posts for a reaction as opposed to posting your true views.

If I had to take a yearly vaccine for Covid as I do with the flu then I would do so as that would no doubt be the advice given to me from someone a lot more qualified than yourself to give it.

 

[John Brown]

Ok. Not directly. Except that he had a DOS that he supplied to IBM that ran on Intel chips, so could have been influential.
To be honest, I heard him on Desert island discs a few years back, and apart from sounding exactly like Kermit the frog, he came across as a thoroughly nice guy. He made no mention of wanting to inject everybody with microchips as part of some nefarious world-domination plan.

 

[rafezetter]

My GP phones me every 2 weeks to check up on me, (previously before Covid I had to go and see him) and because I am classed as vulnerable or most at risk he has advised me to continue lockdown and not leave the house. He says the choice is now my own to make but if he had to make the choice he would choose lockdown for me and everyone else who are in my category. Covid he says is still very much out there and is still killing people on a daily basis. When he last phoned 12 days ago he said it had been 4 days since the last covid patient had been under his jurisdiction but said 1 persons foolish behaviour could change all that.

People are acting as though the fight against covid has been won, they say it's not safe enough for them to return to work, yet they deem it safe enough to visit tourist areas in the thousands, they are happy to take 80% of their wage but unhappy to take the advice offered to them whilst collecting it. Even people on these forums are saying they will not wear a mask or have a vaccine (when or if one gets made) out of principle, I would be prepared to wager that if those same people were to catch Covid after refusing the vaccine they would be saying it was the fault of others as it was not explained properly what could happen should they not take it. Already in certain postcodes throughout the country we are seeing spikes and increases in the number of people with Covid, it would be interesting to know if those areas adhered to the wearing of masks advice as other parts of the country have, my guess would be that they have not and my reasoning would be that the spikes would be a lot wider spread and no doubt cover the whole of the country.

For what it is worth, I see the lockdown as being a safety guard for myself, I also see or believe that the wearing of masks outdoors is also a safety guard and when a vaccine becomes available I would also see that as a safety guard, god only knows I will take any potential safety guard that I possibly could, when faced with the great possibility of death the guidelines and advice given to us all makes a lot of sense.

When some members on here talk about the guidelines and/or mandatory vaccinations as some kind of manipulative scheme it saddens me, it saddens me that our society has reached a stage where it has become every man for himself, it saddens me that every bit of advice given that may save lives is questioned from a negative viewpoint, it saddens me that society has become so selfish and self centred and cares nothing for anyone else. These people will always be the first to shout and try and justify themselves to the point of looking foolish, yet still they will continue. These are usually people who risk nothing, they are unable to take genuine fears of those most at risk into account. I cannot stress enough what it feels like to be to scared to even leave my own home due to the risk of getting killed by some self centred Silly person who believes the rules are just a manipulation tool, would that person call at my house and apologise to my wife for killing me with covid? chances are they would not care.

I am going to be selfish and upset some posters on this thread, I am going to remain inside my home for as long as my GP advises me to do so, if someone knocks on the door I will continue to answer from the window roughly 4M away and wear a mask whilst doing so, I will also sleep at night knowing that no one has ever or would ever catch covid from me.

You are likely upset with me, that's fine. I respect what you say here and I have always defended the rights of individuals to do as they see fit and have always encouraged those most at risk to protect themselves.

All I ask is that those who see risk differently be allowed to live their lives without interference. It matters not one jot to me if you stay at home for 6 months or 6 years if you feel that is necessary to protect yourself. You are also welcome to have any vaccine you like and avoid contact with those you see as potentially dangerous to yourself. Remember though, C19 is not the only thing out that there could kill you if you are as vulnerable as you say, do you take these same precautions every year with flu and other winter respiratory illnesses? You probably should, they kill tens of thousands every year.

I don't see it as selfish to ask be allowed to live my life and ask for that same freedom for others who feel the same. I know the risk, my family knows the risk, if it kills me, then I only have myself to blame exactly the same as when I get into my car and go for a drive (statistically probably as risky as C19 for someone in my demographic).

It's clear you have decided that your right to live your life in the manner that suits you the most, overrides the conventions and requirements that keep other people inside the boundaries of legal and social morality.

That is the absolute definition of a sociopath, and the self confessed fact you care not that these actions may result in the deaths of others many might inferr could also be defined as psychopathic.

I do not beleive for a moment you have shared these viewpoints with your family and social circle especially the viewpoint of "sacrificing old people", because most good people would find this attitude of wilfull disregard for anothers health to the point of death, abhorrent; and without which our human society would devolve into anarchy. All it takes is a few more of you, and a few less of me, something you seem to be willfully promoting.

It's posts like these that's the reason why I don't put people on ignore, here or anywhere else, because someone has to stand in front of it BEFORE it gains momentum.

People don't like me or my views on many things in this forum, but I know I am on the right side of morality, which canot be said for you rorshach.

Edit - I also do not beleive rorshach has signed up for vaccine testing - I think he has said that to take the edge off the fact he has said multiple times he's happy to sacrifice other people as long as he can continue to make money.

And of course he will not provide proof of signing up, because that would give away his real identity, whereas I would happily post all manner of information about myself to any that asked.

 

[RogerS]

..I know the risk, my family knows the risk, if it kills me, .....

Yeah..true. And meanwhile if you're not wearing a mask then you're spraying Covid out over everybody. Nice chap.

Are you in the 20-30 year old cohort who, seemingly, don't give a s**t ? Not just here but in other countries.

 

[Rorschach]

This is the exact reaction I was expecting, What you are saying is that you will do what you deem right regardless of what your actions do to others, the longer you do this the longer those at risk are unable to carry on with a normal life. It bothers you not one jot if those who are vulnerable remain in lockdown for 6 months or 6 years and that they cannot lead ordinary lives, this is providing that you and others can do as they wish.

I think you say these things in the forum for effect, you make out you don't care yet you have signed up to test the vaccines out :? that in my mind makes you an out and out hypocrite. You say one thing and do another, If (touch wood it never happens) your wife or one of your children contacted Covid and had it bad enough that they were hospitalised and their situation became critical I think you would be happy to wear a mask when visiting them or would you argue with the nurses that you should not? we both know the answer to that and so that shows us all that the rules shall be followed when it best suits your situation, the fact that you never really come out and admit to that as it does not suit your argument makes you nothing more than a troll that posts for a reaction as opposed to posting your true views.

If I had to take a yearly vaccine for Covid as I do with the flu then I would do so as that would no doubt be the advice given to me from someone a lot more qualified than yourself to give it.

As I said, if you want to have a vaccine as for flu, that's fine, you take care of yourself. Anyone I come into contact with outside has decided to take the risk of going out as have I, I am not going house to house infecting people on purpose, you will note I also said I do wear a mask in shops as the law dictates, despite my objection to it.

I never said I was testing vaccines, don't know where you got that idea, certainly not something I would get involved in. I have been asked to take part in an infection/antibody study. Still waiting to hear when that begins though.

I am not trolling, these are my real views, my family know it and share some of them but not others.

 

[Rorschach]

..I know the risk, my family knows the risk, if it kills me, .....

Yeah..true. And meanwhile if you're not wearing a mask then you're spraying Covid out over everybody. Nice chap.

Are you in the 20-30 year old cohort who, seemingly, don't give a s**t ? Not just here but in other countries.

I am wearing a mask, Dr Bob already called me a hypocrite for doing so.

 

[Garno]

I am wearing a mask, Dr Bob already called me a hypocrite for doing so.

And is he right?