NickDReed
Established Member
I'm not sure that is true on an average per vehicle basis. I'm fairly sure it's accepted that carbon emissions are greater in the manufacturing of EVs.
EV owners - Car Tax
- Thread starter johnb80
- Start date
Help Support UKworkshop.co.uk:
I'm not sure that is true on an average per vehicle basis. I'm fairly sure it's accepted that carbon emissions are greater in the manufacturing of EVs.
Lons
Established Member
Not arguing with your point as I haven't looked up an data and can't be bothered to do so but as you're so focussed on facts being accurate please note that production of the i3 stopped in July 2022 when the last car rolled off the line not "last year"
Lons
Established Member
I think if you read my previous posts properly you might get a more balanced view as I explained my reasons for not buiying an EV at this moment in time and as far as I'm concerned they are perfectly valid.
I don't constantly knock EVs just the ones I've driven which have been far from impressive and I'll never buy. If I could get the direct equivalent of my current car in EV form I'd seriously look at changing. I can't because they don't make it yet and the alternatives are way overpriced compared to the ICE versions. Whether or not you believe that is up to you, I don't much care either way.
My comment which you picked up on was in response to the OP who constantly tries to ram EVs down everyone's throat seeing none of the negatives instead of looking at the whole picture.
It seems a bit of a religion attitude with some EV "enthusiasts" which just serves to allienate those who haven't decided what's ttrue and what isn't. EVs are suitable for many people not all or at least not yet which is why according to BBc figures the other morning, sales are well below target and very few new EV sales are private buyers with the vast majority being fleet sales and pre registered cars to beat the penalties for missing target. I haven't checked that btw)
Apart from that, you're entitled to your opinion like everyone else but that's all it is and in reality doesn't make a ha'perth of difference.
Last edited:
Lons
Established Member
OK lets look at one example for a comparison.
According to google the weight of a petrol VW Golf is between 1155 to 1357kg depending on the model and equipment level while the golf EV version weighs 1615kg so a difference at best 258kg 19% heavier) and at worst 460kg (34% heavier).
That is a significant difference even at best scenario so while I haven't checked any other models it's an example of how a sweeping dismissal is not applicable. I would bet there are many similar examples as well as others where the EV may be lighter or little difference.
Personally I don't think the weight differences are a valid enough reason to dismiss EVs and wouldn't put me off but it's a factor among many to be considered. It's HGVs that do the most damage to our roads
Unless you are comparing the same model the comparison is not valid. The weight range of vehicles with the same size ICE is massive. A Mercedes usually weighs more than a Volkswagen for example. The videos I was referring to were direct conversions. They took the ICE out and put batteries in. They did one on a Jenson interceptor which came out lighter and with better range but that was an extream example. Porch 911 are lighter and have better front rear distribution.
Terry - Somerset
Established Member
This is an irrelevancy.
What is true is that lifetime emissions of ICE far exceed those of EV - the consensus is that breakeven is somewhere between year 3 and year 5.
Blackswanwood
Still Learning
Yes, achieving net zero will not be done overnight - hence the transition to EVs.
It is generally accepted that battery production and transporting of the batteries results in carbon emissions. BUT, the drilling and refining of oil as well as manufacturing complex ICE and transmissions also has carbon emissions associated with it. ICE also is a huge contributor to pollution when it's being used.
I stand correct m'lud, I'm indebted to your research which of course has changed the value of the point I was making dramatically.Not arguing with your point as I haven't looked up an data and can't be bothered to do so but as you're so focussed on facts being accurate please note that production of the i3 stopped in July 2022 when the last car rolled off the line not "last year"
Terry - Somerset
Established Member
The damage to the road surface is related to the 4th power of its axle load.
- car 1000kg, axle load 500kg, assume load = 1
- EV 2000kg, axle load 1000kg, load = 16 (2x2x2x2)
- HGV 20000kg, 4 axles 5000kg load = 10000 (10x10x10x10)
NickDReed
Established Member
It's not an irrelevancy. The statement suggested that production of ice vehicles produced more carbon emissions than that of evs. I simply pointed out that this was not an accurate statement.
It's not weighted one way or another, simply a correction of erroneous information. I don't care what my car runs on, I care that it is fit for purpose, affordable to buy and my freedom of movement is not impacted. The current EV market does not fulfil that criteria for me yet.
Drifter2406
Established Member
You want to be environmentally friendly? Buy a car and don't change it, stop replacing them every few years, oh and the biggest one, stop having kids, there are way too many people already, and people are the most environmentally unfriendly thing this planet has ever seen. Problem solved. 8 billion? the planet can only sustain about half of that, at best.
Lons
Established Member
Can you not read? Where yoiu got the idea that I was comparing a Merc with a VW from is beyond me.
Look again.
GOLF petrol ULW is between 1155 - 1357gg depending on the model selected _THEY ARE ALL GOLF. The heaviest I suspect being large engine estate version
Golf EV - u/l weight of 1615kg This being the direct EV equivalent of the ICE model. This is from stats quoted on the internet which I haven't verified but are a reliable source.
If you do a search you'll also find that the majority of sources say that an EV is heavier than the ICE version by between 10 and 15% though many are a lot more than this. My statement stands. You'll also note if you read my post that I also said I don't believe weight is a valid reason to discount an EV and it wouldn't put me off.
EVs are not perfect but they are way less damaging overall than ICE equivalents
Almost every negative argument you hear about EVs is covered here.
https://www.carbonbrief.org/factche...al&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
Almost every negative argument you hear about EVs is covered here.
https://www.carbonbrief.org/factche...al&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
Lons
Established Member
I agree 100% though I'm not sure why you replied to my post as the example as that was purely a response to another member who insisted that EVs are not heavier than ICE.
I think the difference is not of significant importance to be a factor and that it's HGVs that cause by far the most damage but another factor which should be put into the equation is mileage covered over a given time. Again HGVs cover hundreds of thousands in a relatively short period while cars cover far fewer. Until recently for example I owned a motorhome with a laden weight of 4.25 tonnes. A heavy vehicle which looks bad until you factor in that in the 6 years I had it from new it covered only 7400 miles. My car weighs around 1900kg but I cover only 4500 mile pa so without the mileage factor it's comparing apples with pears.
Last edited:
pe2dave
Established Member
Another thread degenerates.
Your solar panels likely made in china using coal.
EV’s are heavier than conventional cars, this increases wear and tare.
How do you know that the recycling isn’t more energy intensive than simply using virgin materials?
John Brown
Freeloading Social media influenza
No anti EV person is going to read all that!
I added it for the inquisitive not for those that have made up their minds
Last edited:
Ollie78
Established Member
This is quite a fascinating thread it shows quite stark differences in opinion. It is possible that in some way everyone is partially correct and there are good points from both sides.
I am not anti EV at all, some of them are amazing vehicles and I may indeed buy one at some point, if they become remotely affordable or someone does a decent big van.
The belief that they will solve the environmental issues they claim to fix is likely wishful thinking and at worst a calculated con.
There are so many intrinsic problems that must be solved first, people living in terraced streets and flats cannot charge up at home, the grid is not equipped to take the power needed for charging everyones car anyway, it takes too long to charge and there are already people waiting to charge at motorway services.
Toyota have been making fantastic hybrids for ages and have even done a hydrogen vehicle. This is because they worked out that pure ev was not the best way forward. The exhaust of a modern petrol engine is very clean indeed, perhaps alternative fuels is a better way, certainly more energy dense and lighter.
The car industry doesn`t really want to make EV`s, they are only doing so because they have been told to by governments or face fines and sanctions. The rule where the total fleet of cars sold must be under a certain value makes no sense and is why we can`t get a new Landcruser in the UK.
They will have an effect but it might actually be better to just keep old cars that are already manufactured working longer, no one needs to buy a new car every 2 years.
I am not anti EV at all, some of them are amazing vehicles and I may indeed buy one at some point, if they become remotely affordable or someone does a decent big van.
The belief that they will solve the environmental issues they claim to fix is likely wishful thinking and at worst a calculated con.
There are so many intrinsic problems that must be solved first, people living in terraced streets and flats cannot charge up at home, the grid is not equipped to take the power needed for charging everyones car anyway, it takes too long to charge and there are already people waiting to charge at motorway services.
Toyota have been making fantastic hybrids for ages and have even done a hydrogen vehicle. This is because they worked out that pure ev was not the best way forward. The exhaust of a modern petrol engine is very clean indeed, perhaps alternative fuels is a better way, certainly more energy dense and lighter.
The car industry doesn`t really want to make EV`s, they are only doing so because they have been told to by governments or face fines and sanctions. The rule where the total fleet of cars sold must be under a certain value makes no sense and is why we can`t get a new Landcruser in the UK.
They will have an effect but it might actually be better to just keep old cars that are already manufactured working longer, no one needs to buy a new car every 2 years.
Last edited:
Similar threads
