Electric vehicles

[Terrytpot]

That is possibly the most skewed views put out there, you can't get any mileage with the engine off.

Are you aware what “Stop-Start” is?
It’s not just a digital version of an ignition key , it’s where the engine will turn itself off without any intervention by the driver whilst waiting to move forward and then restarting immediately the accelerator pedal is depressed. This is a feature that can usually be deactivated, hence off, at which point the engine will function as all have done previously and only stop when it either breaks down, runs out of fuel or it’s actively turned off by the driver.

 

[johnb80]

Ok , for some reason you dislike Stop-Start technology , let’s move on to your other points.

Yep he does and me too. I designed a PCB to install in my Touareg to permanently disable the damn thing.

Taking your suggested 1-2 lts of fuel saved at a cost of £1.50-£3.00 (average of current fuel price) for an hr of just idling in the average car seems fairly plausible.

My Mercedes Sprinter at idle consumed 0.8 litres per hour (I used to run it on DIY Bio Diesel).

Saying other components wear faster could be conceived as a bit of a stretch though when all you’re using is current from the battery and the starter motor, both of which are as you pointed out “beefed up” to cope with the additional demand placed on them.

He's absolutely right. When your starting the engine it has zero oil pressure and the fuelling is in open loop until sensors get back up to temperature. Additional wear takes place under these conditions. The fuel saved during the stopped period will be somewhat mitigated by additional fuel whilst running in open loop, the additional load from the alternator to replace energy used starting and running ancillaries whilst stopped.

I agree fully that far more fuel can be saved by driving in a more efficient and economical manner and as such have to regularly undertake SAFED training as part of my job (Safe And Fuel Efficient Driving) as an HGV driver.

Very much soi, forget the brake pedal and youre on a winner, good anticipation and correct use of gears for the conditions.

None of the above though address the fact that Auto manufacturers are trying to sell product and if they can advertise that theirs can hit benchmarks that consumers desire then they’ll actively pursue that avenue and if that means including elements that some buyers don’t like , well there are other choices available.

I think the argument is they should allow such items to be defaulted off or on, drivers then have choice of how they want to use such features.

 

[Spectric]

When your starting the engine it has zero oil pressure

Yes the most engine wear occurs from starting from cold but even hot starts will cause wear because it is only the oil pressure that keeps the crank journals away from the bearings, but the OEM will know this and as long as it keeps going until out of warranty then they will not be overly concerned.

 

[johnb80]

Yes the most engine wear occurs from starting from cold but even hot starts will cause wear because it is only the oil pressure that keeps the crank journals away from the bearings, but the OEM will know this and as long as it keeps going until out of warranty then they will not be overly concerned.

Totally agree and the fuelling will be in open loop and pollution during this time higher than when running closed loop.

 

[paulrbarnard]

I think that pedestrian priority is applied with some common sense.

Deliberately (or even inattentively) stepping into the path of a vehicle which has insufficient time to react, stop or avoid would not render the car liable.

Priority is where a pedestrian has started to cross the road, waiting by a zebra crossing etc.

Or at any turn into another road. Terrible how many drivers aren’t aware of that new regulation.

 

[paulrbarnard]

Yep he does and me too. I designed a PCB to install in my Toareg to permanently disable the damn thing.


My Mercedes Sprinter at idle consumed 0.8 litres per hour (I used to run it on DIY Bio Diesel).


He's absolutely right. When your starting the engine it has zero oil pressure and the fuelling is in open loop until sensors get back up to temperature. Additional wear takes place under these conditions. The fuel saved during the stopped period will be somewhat mitigated by additional fuel whilst running in open loop, the additional load from the alternator to replace energy used starting and running ancillaries whilst stopped.


Very much soi, forget the brake pedal and youre on a winner, good anticipation and correct use of gears for the conditions.


I think the argument is they should allow such items to be defaulted off or on, drivers then have choice of how they want to use such features.

It’s the regulators who determine things like being able to disable stop start. Some countries do not slow it to be disabled as the homologation relied on the use to meet the fuel targets. Some OEM simply keep the same setup for all regions.

 

[MikeJhn]

Are you aware what “Stop-Start” is?
It’s not just a digital version of an ignition key , it’s where the engine will turn itself off without any intervention by the driver whilst waiting to move forward and then restarting immediately the accelerator pedal is depressed. This is a feature that can usually be deactivated, hence off, at which point the engine will function as all have done previously and only stop when it either breaks down, runs out of fuel or it’s actively turned off by the driver.

Not only aware, but know what it is for, nothing to do with fuel milage, but to do with emissions, your skewed previous post indicate that you are the one that is unaware of its function.

 

[jcassidy]

Sadly, pedestrians now don't have to take responsibility, due to recent changes, they have precedence in right of way over the car.
Still likely to end up over the car bonnet anyway though.

I'm not sure which changes those are?

rules for pedestrians

Cars always have to give way to people; having an obligation to avoid killing people it's pretty fundamental to the rule of law.

That said, I'm not aware of any case where a driver proceeding in a prudent manner has faced charges for hitting someone jay walking. Plenty of cases of the opposite, where pedestrians following all the rules have been killed by reckless drivers, including at the crossing near my home that my kids use every day.

women convicted of killing pedestrian

 

[Terrytpot]

That is possibly the most skewed views put out there, you can't get any mileage with the engine off.

Ok , gloves off time.
My point was that cars advertise mpg figures that are borderline impossible to hit and having an engine idling will be using fuel. If the engine turns off it’s obviously not using fuel which will leave MORE fuel available to try and achieve the mpg advertised than if the engine had just been left idling.

Not only aware, but know what it is for, nothing to do with fuel milage, but to do with emissions, your skewed previous post indicate that you are the one that is unaware of its function.

Emmisions, hmm remind me what makes those, oh yeah , that’s right running engines which you also need to achieve a respectable mpg..but here’s an idea..maybe if we turned the engine off when we weren’t using it perhaps that would have more than one benefit, like maybe reducing the vehicle’s emissions AND improving its economy or is that too skewed for you to get your head around?

 

[johnb80]

Ok , gloves off time.

well the weather is a little warmer round here and I've always got my heated steering wheel if I'm driving

My point was that cars advertise mpg figures that are borderline impossible to hit

The figures published have actually been achieved in a testing lab. It's not real world I agree but is accurate for comparison between models.

and having an engine idling will be using fuel. If the engine turns off it’s obviously not using fuel which will leave MORE fuel available to try and achieve the mpg advertised than if the engine had just been left idling.

BUT it consumes more fuel when first started than if it wa sleft running dependent on the time it's left running. If you stop for 2 seconds and the engine is shut down I feel it's highly likely more fuel would be used compared to leaving the engine running. It depends really on how long the stop is.

Emmisions, hmm remind me what makes those, oh yeah , that’s right running engines which you also need to achieve a respectable mpg..but here’s an idea..maybe if we turned the engine off when we weren’t using it perhaps that would have more than one benefit, like maybe reducing the vehicle’s emissions AND improving its economy

As stated above, it depends on the length of time it's stopped. If for example it's bumper to bumper traffic, move forward a couple a metres then stop for a couple of seconds (the engine stops) then move forward another couple of metres etc Im sure that would use more fuel than leaving the engine idling. If youre stopped for 50 seconds for traffic lights then the jury is out if that would save fuel, my guess is it wont, it may reduce emissions a little.

or is that too skewed for you to get your head around?

How about you getting your head around that?

 

[Terrytpot]

well the weather is a little warmer round here and I've always got my heated steering wheel if I'm driving


The figures published have actually been achieved in a testing lab. It's not real world I agree but is accurate for comparison between models.


..,If you stop for 2 seconds and the engine is shut down I feel ..

…Im sure that would use more fuel than leaving the engine idling.

my guess is it wont, it may reduce emissions a little.


How about you getting your head around that?

Ok..
I feel
I’m sure
My guess
See a pattern here at all?
I’m not saying I have laboratory experience to back up my posited points but I’m pretty damn sure the auto industry does.

 

[paulrbarnard]

Ok..
I feel
I’m sure
My guess
See a pattern here at all?
I’m not saying I have laboratory experience to back up my posited points but I’m pretty damn sure the auto industry does.

https://afdc.energy.gov/files/u/publication/which_is_greener.pdf

Around 10 seconds is the cross over point for stop start technology

 

[Lons]

https://afdc.energy.gov/files/u/publication/which_is_greener.pdf

Around 10 seconds is the cross over point for stop start technology

I disable mine if I'm in a slow moving queue of traffic and press the button again once moving normally. Right or wrong I can't see how starting up again every couple of seconds can help emissions.

 

[johnb80]

I disable mine if I'm in a slow moving queue of traffic and press the button again once moving normally. Right or wrong I can't see how starting up again every couple of seconds can help emissions.

It absolutely does not.

 

[paulrbarnard]

It absolutely does not.

As per the study it does if the stops are longer than 10 seconds.

 

[johnb80]

As per the study it does if the stops are longer than 10 seconds.

But Lons said 'in slow moving traffic' which suggests to me stop for a couple of seconds and then move off again.

 

[Lons]

But Lons said 'in slow moving traffic' which suggests to me stop for a couple of seconds and then move off again.

Exactly what I said. It's the press of a button so if stuck at lights or a proper hold up I don't switch off. Actually it turns itself off if there's a high energy consumption at the time e.g. cold engine, raining and dark, demisters on it makes sense not to drain the battery by constant re start. Turns itself back on when conditions improve.
We've come a long way since the starting handle which could break a wrist if you didn't get out of the way in time. I never owned one but my dad did, those were the days.

 

[johnb80]

We've come a long way since the starting handle which could break a wrist if you didn't get out of the way in time. I never owned one but my dad did, those were the days.

Aye, engines kicking back could be painful, I had a Triumph Bonneville that had manual advance/retard on the magneto, you only ever forgot once to retard it when kick starting, the pain through your leg was amazing when it kicked back.

 

[Sachakins]

Aye, engines kicking back could be painful, I had a Triumph Bonneville that had manual advance/retard on the magneto, you only ever forgot once to retard it when kick starting, the pain through your leg was amazing when it kicked back.

Tried kick starting my dad's triumph tiger 100 when I was about 10 AND while it was in the shed.

Battered shin/ankle/knee and a huge bump on my head. Everything black and blue fir a couple of weeks.

 

[johnb80]

Tried kick starting my dad's triumph tiger 100 when I was about 10 AND while it was in the shed.

Battered shin/ankle/knee and a huge bump on my head. Everything black and blue fir a couple of weeks.

Sounds about right