woodieallen
Established Member
Not sure what point you are trying to make.
Electric vehicles
- Thread starter Woodchips2
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It is amazing, and potentially the answer to all our power needs.
As I understand it the holy grail is still to create an ongoing controllable reaction, which I think is still some way off.
Latest idea I think is to have multiple small reactions one after another, in such quick succession that it appears like a single sustained reaction.
The last I read was theyd managed to get to around 40 seconds with better than unity power gain. They are certainly making progress.
Sachakins
The most wasted of days is one without woodwork
@johnb80
Hi, just spent some time analysing my data over 12 months and when car was on charge off charge and for fixed off peak electric I used.
I am happy that the charging prices reflect what is used.
I still have a bit to do, as I will try a manual boost charge for a couple of hours, using Octopus app, then again Myenergi App then finally just using the Zappi control panel after disconnecting it from wifi, which shouldn't affect Octopus, as zappi doest need wifi to run charging.
I think should indicate if they are relying just on the CT clamp to recognise charging current.
Another test I want to try is charge a different vehicle. Since my set up has integration to my car, then the auto charging won't work. But I could still manually charge it from zappi using self schedule charging.
One thing I will do is to try and change Octopus integration from car to integrate to charger, but I'm not sure the app allows this, need to check.
It should do as not all cars are able to be integrated by Octopus.
Tomato have confirmed it's compatible with zappi IF the CT clamp is fitted, if not one will have to be fitted.
So I imagine that EV charging is measured through the CT clamp, hence why Octopus and others can identify when EV charging is used if CT clamp is fitted.
re Tomato Energy.
I haven't found anything else concrete to put me off them. Found quite a few customer poor reviews, but you can find them for all others, including Octopus.
Most are about customer service, so that doesn't me too much.
I'm waiting on second email from tomato, as their usage estimate is 894 kwh short of my actual year usage.
Asked them why their estimate was so far out as well.
If Tomato give reasonable reasons and compatibility and Octopus can't get nearer, as I've emailed them too.
I may yet still moved to Tomato, and hunt for a gas only deal elsewhere?
Cheers
Hi, just spent some time analysing my data over 12 months and when car was on charge off charge and for fixed off peak electric I used.
I am happy that the charging prices reflect what is used.
I still have a bit to do, as I will try a manual boost charge for a couple of hours, using Octopus app, then again Myenergi App then finally just using the Zappi control panel after disconnecting it from wifi, which shouldn't affect Octopus, as zappi doest need wifi to run charging.
I think should indicate if they are relying just on the CT clamp to recognise charging current.
Another test I want to try is charge a different vehicle. Since my set up has integration to my car, then the auto charging won't work. But I could still manually charge it from zappi using self schedule charging.
One thing I will do is to try and change Octopus integration from car to integrate to charger, but I'm not sure the app allows this, need to check.
It should do as not all cars are able to be integrated by Octopus.
Tomato have confirmed it's compatible with zappi IF the CT clamp is fitted, if not one will have to be fitted.
So I imagine that EV charging is measured through the CT clamp, hence why Octopus and others can identify when EV charging is used if CT clamp is fitted.
re Tomato Energy.
I haven't found anything else concrete to put me off them. Found quite a few customer poor reviews, but you can find them for all others, including Octopus.
Most are about customer service, so that doesn't me too much.
I'm waiting on second email from tomato, as their usage estimate is 894 kwh short of my actual year usage.
Asked them why their estimate was so far out as well.
If Tomato give reasonable reasons and compatibility and Octopus can't get nearer, as I've emailed them too.
I may yet still moved to Tomato, and hunt for a gas only deal elsewhere?
Cheers
I cant think how they would differentiate the car charge load from the house load other than by the car itself or the EVSE.
You absolutely should do this, it works so much better and none of the potential downsides (flat 12v battery etc). When I changed my i3 over to Zappi integration, the Octopus responses were much faster and absolutely reliable. It is the way to go.
Tomato dont integrate with Zappi or any other charger, they have no way of reading the data other than from your smart meter.
The company's that separate out car charging BG for example) rely on EVSE or Car integration.
So true
Tomato are rubbish at email response, Ive been waiting now about 10 days for a reply. That said, Octopus havent replied either to an email sent at the same time! What Tomato does do well is answer the phone promptly, have very knowledgeable people on the other end that know their tariffs, that hasnt been my experience with Octopus..
For my quote they accessed my previous 12 months usage. Octopus have done a huge boo boo with my final meter readings, theyve managed to swap over peak and off peak, as I dont use any peak it will make for an interesting bill, it looks as if Ive used 27 MWh in August!
There isnt any compatibility needed with Tomato, from midnight to 06:00 you get 5p kWh and thats it, no linking up, no integration, no compatibility issues.
woodieallen
Established Member
I see new EV sales in Germany have suffered a staggering 70% drop this year.
Just like a recession, we talk ourselves into it. The media, press etc seem to love knocking EV's and it's mostly unfounded rubbish they protray. I have run EV's (2 of them) for the last 7 years and none of the popular myths have happened - batteries are dead after 7 years, NOPE, you have to wait around hours to recharge - NOPE, the charging infrastructure isnt ready - mostly NOPE, 35% of people dont have off street parking so cant charge at home - YES, this is true but it means that 65% DO have off street parking and CAN charge at home. They go on about the cost of rapid DC charging typically 80 to 90p per hour which makes an EV similar in fuel costs to a diesel again this is true BUT it's greedy charger operators that are making a killing, TESLA rapid chargers are typically half that price, if Tesla can do it so can the others. Even if the fuel costs are the same as a diesel, the performance and servicing costs are much better.
EV is the way forward and we should embrace this technology more. The charging infrastructure should be nationalised and run not for profit to promote the green agenda.
woodieallen
Established Member
Don’t say that. It will only be another opportunity for Kneeler and Reiver to screw pensioners for more money.
EV depreciation dire - TRUE
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Hydrogen generation - which I'm greatly in favor of as a diversification in energy supply is nowhere near 30% efficient if you do a full cradle to grave analysis, much closer to 3% for transport or almost exactly the same as running a car on petrol. The point is it is recovery of otherwise wasted energy and that hydrogen can do things which can't currently be done with electricity - take a look at work done by JCB on hydrogen fueled engines.
I think we are already seeing how the use of petrol and diesel will decline with the loss of rural fuel stations, driven by reduced demand not just due to EVs bu also the greater efficiency of modern engines. Drive further to buy more expensive fuel and EVs charging at home become more attractive. I am expecting there to be all sorts of knock on effects from this, more than I know about, I remember being told that fertilizer price was effected by the reduced petrol demand during the pandemic also that the food industry was short of CO2 there must be many more examples.
A bit back I watched a documentary about a town somewhere in Siberia. They had a 'portable' nuclear reactor that was mounted on a barge
Hang on .. quick google
Here we go -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_floating_nuclear_power_station
Length 474' with a 98' beam
To get an idea of scale. The royal yacht Britannia is 414' length with a 55' beam
I love the idea of an EV, the issues preventing me going that way include the fact the electric equivalent is still more expensive than their comparative ICE. Insurance costs based on my own comparisons is double that of the ICE cars, some cases more. For example, 840 per annum vs 360. This was for a skoda enyaq vs a karoq.
The loss of the VED is also a problem.
The servicing cost/interval being pushed by the manufacturers is a joke. I know there is very little to service with an EV, yet they were charging way more to "service" when I was looking into it (might be better now)
I haven't looked recently, but that was what I found approx 18 months back when I started to look for an EV. I looked at several models at the time and reviewed overall costs for all elements. Charging vs fuelling, insurance, service etc. The EV was staggeringly more expensive over the 3, 4 and 5 year comparison. I did spreadsheet for the whole exercise but can't find this now. I may revisit in the future. I'm highly in favour of EV's, I just can't afford it.
Edit: EV's at the time we're a great option for buying through a business due to the minimal BIK.
The loss of the VED is also a problem.
The servicing cost/interval being pushed by the manufacturers is a joke. I know there is very little to service with an EV, yet they were charging way more to "service" when I was looking into it (might be better now)
I haven't looked recently, but that was what I found approx 18 months back when I started to look for an EV. I looked at several models at the time and reviewed overall costs for all elements. Charging vs fuelling, insurance, service etc. The EV was staggeringly more expensive over the 3, 4 and 5 year comparison. I did spreadsheet for the whole exercise but can't find this now. I may revisit in the future. I'm highly in favour of EV's, I just can't afford it.
Edit: EV's at the time we're a great option for buying through a business due to the minimal BIK.
Possibly your choice of EV isnt the most favourable. I run 2 EV's a BMW i3 and an MG5 Trophy. Both of them have fully coimprehensive insurance with Direct Line at under £300 each. The MG5 can be purchased new, all the bells and whistles, 7 year warranty, 250 mile range for under £20k now (Perrys at Leeds IIRC). Servicing, I bough a 4 year service plan for my MG5 and that cost £520 for the whole 4 years, my i3 a 3 year service plan was £490.
In terms of running costs both cars manage 5 miles/kWh unless you need to do 70+ mph where it drops a little, with the Tomato Energy EV tariff at 5p kWh that returns 1p per mile. Consider this aspect against a diesel of say 45mpg you would save £1400 on the fuel cost alone over 10,000 miles.
EV's aren't for everyone but for most people they are an excellent choice.
Until a cheaper way is developed for harvesting the Hydrogen AND an efficient way of storing / transporting Hydrogen it simply will not happen. It's way too expensive, storage tanks are extremely heavy and the pressures involved are dangerously high.
Aye, take a look at the work done by Toyota on the same thing with massively different results. JCB have a resonable argument for fuelling plant and equipment on a building site and the expense Hydrogen may be acceptable in this usage case but not for day to day transport. Have you seen the take up of JCB's Hydrogen offerings? there is almost zero interest.
It's hard to see how it could be more attractive, charging overnight at 5p kWh giving 1p per mile fuel cost or from solar energy making it free.
Im sure youre right there are a lot of fringe industries surrounding the oil industry but necessity is the mother of invention, we will find ways when need is established to either manage without the fertiliser or make the fertiliser by other processes.
stuart little
Established Member
The port of Zaandvoort is clogged up with Chinese EVs, that no one wants!
As far as fertiliser goes, we all produce significant quantities of it every day (some more than others...!) then spend huge amounts of money and use lots of scarce water to treat it and throw it away, though I accept that some of it does end up on the land.. Would it not make much more sense to see all that "waste" as a valuable resource of methane for fuel and manure for the fields? It would go a long way towards cleaning up the rivers too.
Im not sure that human waste can be used to much benefit.
Methane is an ok use, probably have a treatment plant with a generation turbine attached would work very efficiently.
It would help in the river clean up for sure.
As a result of the media that EV's are bad by simply repeating mythical garbage.
It always used to be used to great benefit, only stopped with the introduction of flush toilets and let's not forget that the largest amount of waste we produce is in the form of urine, which is hugely beneficial to growing stuff.
I'll bow to your greater knowledge, I'm not convinced it is entirely true though. Urine is a waste product from the body which AFAIK is pretty much sterile. The excrement from humans unless coming from a vegetarian human are not as good as that from animals which are generally grass eaters. Pobably over simplified but I believe this is the case.
Urine may be sterile when it leaves, but it plays a huge part in the nitrogen cycle, breaking down into ammonia and its by products and is a seriously good plant fertiliser - commercially made nitrogen fertilisers take the nitrogen directly from the air and are massively energy intensive to produce. As far as the solids go, grazing animals don't produce the best dung, just a lot of it - think of chicken or pig manure, both famous for their value in agriculture/horticulture and both from omnivores (by nature at least). When you use "farmyard manure" in your garden, the bigger part of the value of it is in the urine that has soaked into the straw and broken it down. You can turn principle this to your advantage by peeing in your compost heap, which will help it heat up to destroy pathogens and speed up the composting process.
Some treated human waste does still make it to the land, though without looking it up, I'd be guessing if I said how much.
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